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Post by Initiation on Oct 22, 2018 1:25:17 GMT
For quite awhile I’ve chosen to be on the sidelines in all this ...until this video was posted. Along with the poor technical production, the presentation’s content and demeanor made watching AND listening not just frustrating, but really painful. This remonstrating conference seemed to be like a priestly extension of the recent Pablo temper tantrum video trilogy (since removed) so full of anger. As if the faithful were a child in a high-chair being forced fed by their father and he was steaming mad that his child had the nerve to ask him what he was feeding them. I was hoping that this would be Father acknowledging all the questions and concerns of the faithful, so charitably addressed last week by Fr. Hewko; and perhaps some reassuring, calming fatherly guidance. Instead he seemed more intent on making this a laborious mission to castigate and condemn his perceived enemies; and he took a really long time doing it. To me, it wasn’t so much what Father had to say, as it was what he didn’t have to say; very disappointing. Perhaps it’s because he considers the source as confrontational enemy fire, but Father doesn’t seem to really consider the many contradictions and concerns that are pointed out, worth any factual refutation; his continual rebuttal to the points seemed to be: “You’re a liar and you’re going to hell.” Maybe its just me, but if you’re intent on presenting the reason why the many concerns and contradictions are a fallacy, can't you calmly refute the points of contention with actual facts to demonstrate the falsehood? If you think he accomplished this, well I’m sorry, but I disagree. Instead, his refutations were blanketed with fast talking ad hominem accusation and condemnation; not very convincing. I almost felt like I was being sold something that I really didn't need. As far as any refutation goes, I’m betting if this were a court of Law, his case would probably be thrown out. Since the drama of this bizarre soap-opera has resurfaced, Father has told many of us personally that the fathers are in the midst of a toilsome process of investigation (especially in light of the possible clandestine consecrations by Cardinal Slipyj); and Fr. Hewko’s recent sermon reinforced this. But, to me, what’s now most troubling is that with this presentation, Father gives a clear impression that this investigation is not really necessary after all. Consider this baffling logic toward the end of the video: This is why we need prayers to Our Lady of the Rosary. These are my thoughts regarding the video. I found it painful to watch as well as it being dragged out for longer than what was necessary. I had some hope that he would have spoken about the concerns and answered our questions but sadly he did not. I found it to be more of a defence than simply him putting our minds at ease by clearing up our concerns. I also was disappointed by how he seemed to be attacking a man for doing some research and bringing about some concerns that needed to be addressed while also condemning anyone who shared the same concerns. I felt like he was almost judging us from the other side of the screen. We only want the truth, that is all and not by merely showing us a couple of certificates. Those do not clear up all the questions and concerns that we have. If everything we are worried about is false than please show us how we are wrong so we may all be at peace. Father did not make it seem like it was important, as kelley said, and that concerns me as well. Anything that is partly clouded in smoke should be important as it concerns the salvation of souls who look at him for guidance. The quote was troubling to me as well when I first heard it one of my thoughts was "If I asked a freemasonic priest if he was a freemason, would he tell me the truth?" The answer is certainly in the negative. In this day and age more than ever, we cannot always take a man at his word, especially when it has so many concerns and contradictions involved. Praying for clarity, guidance and the truth is more important than ever. As well as praying for the priest to remain humble and faithful just like Father Hewko has said multiple times in the pulpit. "Three things are necessary for the salvation of man: to know what he ought to believe; to know what he ought to desire; and to know what he ought to do." - Saint Thomas Aquinas
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2018 1:31:04 GMT
Isn't it striking not one person here spoke of anything Father elaborated on? It would be very mature in conversation to build on something, anything, for what father had to say than to discount it. Wouldn't you agree? Asking how to do that is rather distracting to his efforts. And no, I did not say pulcheria is immature. You missed the whole point. I repeat, it would be mature to start a conversation on what the priest had to say; not laymen covering over it. Please do not turn this into a spectator sport. Father was very clear about a certain layman acting in fraud. Didn't you even listen to the conference? Appears not with your responses. As far as the catacombs, please do not be over confident, there is an evident change here.
Why do you not start a conversation about that legitimately signed corporal in the gold picture frame from Cardinal Slipyj and shown in that website ambrosemoran.wordpress.com/ I am really interested in that. That's huge! Why not the baptismal certificate father got from new york? That should be really interesting to any catholic? Why are these things not talked about? Why only is the narrative of calling father essentially a liar prevalent? I may be rather new to this forum, but where is the honesty towards these many other documents and photographs? Why the blackout?
You people claim to seek the truth. Why not address what father had presented? Why is asking for this an 'attack' to you? Adding pablo's stupidly as if the priests have control over it is distracting. And yes, it is a strawman.
The bishop should give a present conference. Today. Wouldn't that answer a lot of questions?
You’re missing the point, tobias. We didn’t say that there isn’t any evidence for Bp. Ambrose. We said that there is a lot of evidence AGAINST him and this creates the problem. Its not enough to keep repeating that. Your saying he is not a catholic. Father showed a real catholic certificate. Done! Your saying he is not a catholic priest with a discrepancy of documents. Well there are those many photos proving he is a catholic priest. Can't argue against sacramental photos. Done! You saying he is not a catholic bishop. Father showed many documents, photos, and the authentic corporal that he is. Done! And, father elaborated he talked to a priest who was at the consecration of the bishop. Done! So you want us to choose what a layman has to say?
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Post by kelley on Oct 22, 2018 1:35:29 GMT
God love you, tobias... These are just my observations ...my take. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything or debate the pros/cons of Father's message. In fact, I don't find anything in his message or presentation demeanor that's even merit worthy. Frankly, as someone who's been with him from the get-go, I'm very saddened and concerned. To me, this conference heightens my fears that his ability to pass objective, prudential judgement is seriously imbalanced.
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ruthy
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Post by ruthy on Oct 22, 2018 2:07:11 GMT
Father gives a response concerning Archbishop Ambrose and it's still not good enough. Let's keep complaining, "the video quality is bad, etc...etc... etc...I don't understand, what more evidence do you need? Don't put your trust into a laymen's investigation. Father Pfeiffer is holding the line of Archbishop Lefebvre. He has not said anything contrary to Catholic doctrine. Why would he compromise the faith with a fake bishop? Do you really think he would? I believe he has total trust, in Our Lady and in Divine Providence, of God providing a bishop when God sees fit. Maybe God has.
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ruthy
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Post by ruthy on Oct 22, 2018 2:12:29 GMT
Where is the positive of Father's response on this forum? Am I on Cor-Marie or Cathinfo. This conversation makes me think of how the liberals treat the president of the United State... he can't do anything right and we he does do something it isn't good enough. God help us!
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Post by Admin on Oct 22, 2018 2:20:27 GMT
I think there a few things we can all agree on:
We are all very grateful to Fr Pfeiffer for addressing some of the concerns about Bp Ambrose.
We see that we need very much to continue to pray as Fr Hewko reminded us, not only for the priests but for ourselves and for our neighbor as well. Fr. Hewko reminded us too to pray to clearly see and discern God’s will. As we wrote in the OP, we can think of no better advice to embrace at this time.
Many hoped when OLMC did address the concerns about the bishop there would be a little more substance than what was already discussed before. Some were already well aware of these proofs Fr Pfeiffer discussed as they were offered essentially unchanged three years prior but since that time have had other concerns in addition. For others, what was discussed in the conference was all they needed.
Regardless, let us keep in a spirit of fraternal charity and continue to pray much to Our Lady.
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Post by amicus on Oct 22, 2018 2:52:10 GMT
Fr. Pfeiffer was right when he said months ago, what good would it do to come out and state the truth about Bishop Ambrose, people are going to believe what they want. I am very saddened that people can be taken in so easily by the lies. Remember, it was Fr. Pfeiffer who alerted us back in 2012 and has since given us the Mass, Sacraments and the Faith to hold on to. Fr. Pfeiffer and Fr. Hewko have always held to the teachings of Holy Mother Church and have tried to guide us on the path to Eternal Salvation, why would they do anything now to loose all that. I have full trust in my Spiritual leaders and know Our Heavenly Mother has OLMC under Her mantel of protection. Maybe those with so much time on their hands as to cause trouble might be better off getting on their knees and asking God for forgiveness in their lack of charity towards others, especially our good Priests.
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Post by Admin on Oct 22, 2018 3:25:38 GMT
Please let us do keep in mind that many of those with concerns about Bp. Ambrose have been with Frs. Pfeiffer and Hewko since the beginning, since 2012. They too left the SSPX. These are not reeds shaken by every contrary wind. They have fought alongside the Fathers, assisting in whatever way they could since those early days. Perhaps it is because many of them are x-SSPX that they question and do not take anything at face value.
Is Fr. Hewko lying when he said: It is not a for-or-against Fr. Pfeiffer to ask questions. How that mentality was allowed to take root and thrive, I don't know. It's not an attack against Fr. Pfeiffer to ask for the facts. If they are there, then its easy.
Many people did the right thing. They waited for the priests to explain it to them. Some shared their concerns with others when there was a prolonged silence. Some just left. They did not do as Ecclesia Militans did and publish their personal opinion far and wide. And just because some here express disappointment in what was or wasn't discussed by Fr. Pfeiffer in that conference doesn't mean that they are against Fr. Pfeiffer. We must all strive to keep a Catholic perspective. The devil is hard at work here to separate and divide.
Our Lady Help of Christians, pray for us.
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Post by Elizabeth on Oct 22, 2018 3:49:39 GMT
I was hoping to have everything cleared up once and for all, but instead my soul became even more troubled. I am going to need more than just paper for proof. Paper proof is only part of it.
Martin Luther was a baptized and ordained in the Catholic Church and he started Lutherism. Henry VII was baptized Catholic and defended the Church and he started Anglicanism. Arius was a baptized Catholic and ordained a Catholic priest and started Arianism. Etc...
I have read many times in the history of the Church of bishops writing and sending professions of faith to the pope, which are all Catholic professions of faith, and it ends up that the professions are not true. They only did it to not get in trouble with the Pope, to keep their positions, what they had.
The thing I love the most about the Church is her approach in defending the truth against herectics, schismatics and pagans. She would listen to their facts, what they believed, and she would ask them to prove it and then she would do her side of the debate. She would present facts and information to show why they were wrong, but she would never speak against the person with whom she was having the debate with, she would only focus on showing why their facts and beliefs were wrong.
This is what I was hoping Fr. Pfeiffer would do, but he focused more on the people bringing up the objections, instead of the objections himself. It hurts me to see him do this.
We should look at the message and not who’s saying it.
Another thing to look at, is the possibility that this is the devil. God sends test and sometimes what looks to be good and appears to be coming from God can turn out to be the devil. After all, the devil is the monkey of God.
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Post by Elizabeth on Oct 22, 2018 3:56:56 GMT
Please let us do keep in mind that many of those with concerns about Bp. Ambrose have been with Frs. Pfeiffer and Hewko since the beginning, since 2012. They too left the SSPX. These are not reeds shaken by every contrary wind. They have fought alongside the Fathers, assisting in whatever way they could since those early days. Perhaps it is because many of them are x-SSPX that they question and do not take anything at face value.
Is Fr. Hewko lying when he said: It is not a for-or-against Fr. Pfeiffer to ask questions. How that mentality was allowed to take root and thrive, I don't know. It's not an attack against Fr. Pfeiffer to ask for the facts. If they are there, then its easy.
Many people did the right thing. They waited for the priests to explain it to them. Some shared their concerns with others when there was a prolonged silence. Some just left. They did not do as Ecclesia Militans did and publish their personal opinion far and wide. And just because some here express disappointment in what was or wasn't discussed by Fr. Pfeiffer in that conference doesn't mean that they are against Fr. Pfeiffer. We must all strive to keep a Catholic perspective. The devil is hard at work here to separate and divide.
Our Lady Help of Christians, pray for us.
Very good answer! I agree! Why is it that every time we ask a question regarding this, everyone things we are attacking Fr. Pfeiffer? It should be easy to answer the questions, right? People asked Christ questions and He answered. I am not against Fr. Pfeiffer at all, actually it’s the contrary I am more worried about him doing mistakes.
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Post by Initiation on Oct 22, 2018 4:09:47 GMT
Please let us do keep in mind that many of those with concerns about Bp. Ambrose have been with Frs. Pfeiffer and Hewko since the beginning, since 2012. They too left the SSPX. These are not reeds shaken by every contrary wind. They have fought alongside the Fathers, assisting in whatever way they could since those early days. Perhaps it is because many of them are x-SSPX that they question and do not take anything at face value.
Is Fr. Hewko lying when he said: It is not a for-or-against Fr. Pfeiffer to ask questions. How that mentality was allowed to take root and thrive, I don't know. It's not an attack against Fr. Pfeiffer to ask for the facts. If they are there, then its easy.
Many people did the right thing. They waited for the priests to explain it to them. Some shared their concerns with others when there was a prolonged silence. Some just left. They did not do as Ecclesia Militans did and publish their personal opinion far and wide. And just because some here express disappointment in what was or wasn't discussed by Fr. Pfeiffer in that conference doesn't mean that they are against Fr. Pfeiffer. We must all strive to keep a Catholic perspective. The devil is hard at work here to separate and divide.
Our Lady Help of Christians, pray for us.
Well said Admin! We aren't against Father Pfeiffer, we merely want the truth and personally speaking after what happened in the SSPX and seeing how people had followed blindly, I don't want the same thing to happen. We may all fall into the devil's traps, no one is safe after all and no one is perfect. Passing judgement and attacking others for sharing concerns will not solve anything. Read the quotes of Father Hewko that Admin posted, I am beginning to think that not many listened to him speak a bit about the matter. This is not about attacking the priests in the slightest, it is about the truth and making sure that God's will be done and not that of the devil.
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agnes
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Post by agnes on Oct 22, 2018 9:29:19 GMT
Sorry to be off topic but I'm not very good on the use of forums, but I think the Pablo situation is sad. Yes his behaviour was strange and he probably shouldn't have used his personal opinion as a weapon in regards to Moran. My personal thoughts were that he couldn't handle the persecution any longer, when coming from all over the globe and from the beginning. Cor Mariae? do they know him personally? Even when his son was dying, they gnawed away. Fr. Hewko said that Pablo did a lot to help out. What happened to Charity? We will keep him in our Rosary.
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Post by amicus on Oct 22, 2018 13:03:08 GMT
Food for thought;
"Think ye, that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, no; but Separation. St. Luke 12: 51
You hypocrites, you know how to discern the face of the heaven and of the earth: but how is it that you do not discern this time? St. Luke 12: 56
And then shall many be scandalized: and shall betray one another: and shall hate one another.
And many false prophets shall rise, and shall seduce many.
And because iniquity hath abounded, the charity of many shall grow cold.
But he that shall persevere to the end, he shall be saved. St. Matthew, 24: 10-13
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ruthy
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Post by ruthy on Oct 22, 2018 13:16:08 GMT
So, what concerns have not been answered by Fr. Pfeiffer? Did I miss something?
- Jesus, Meek and Humble of Heart, Make My Heart Like to Thine!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2018 13:24:54 GMT
Please let us do keep in mind that many of those with concerns about Bp. Ambrose have been with Frs. Pfeiffer and Hewko since the beginning, since 2012. They too left the SSPX. These are not reeds shaken by every contrary wind. They have fought alongside the Fathers, assisting in whatever way they could since those early days. Perhaps it is because many of them are x-SSPX that they question and do not take anything at face value.
Is Fr. Hewko lying when he said: It is not a for-or-against Fr. Pfeiffer to ask questions. How that mentality was allowed to take root and thrive, I don't know. It's not an attack against Fr. Pfeiffer to ask for the facts. If they are there, then its easy.
Many people did the right thing. They waited for the priests to explain it to them. Some shared their concerns with others when there was a prolonged silence. Some just left. They did not do as Ecclesia Militans did and publish their personal opinion far and wide. And just because some here express disappointment in what was or wasn't discussed by Fr. Pfeiffer in that conference doesn't mean that they are against Fr. Pfeiffer. We must all strive to keep a Catholic perspective. The devil is hard at work here to separate and divide.
Our Lady Help of Christians, pray for us.
Well said Admin! We aren't against Father Pfeiffer, we merely want the truth and personally speaking after what happened in the SSPX and seeing how people had followed blindly, I don't want the same thing to happen. We may all fall into the devil's traps, no one is safe after all and no one is perfect. Passing judgement and attacking others for sharing concerns will not solve anything. Read the quotes of Father Hewko that Admin posted, I am beginning to think that not many listened to him speak a bit about the matter. This is not about attacking the priests in the slightest, it is about the truth and making sure that God's will be done and not that of the devil. Funny, we are trying to have a conversation on what father said and you folks will not engage. Instead you go on about being righteous looking for the 'truth' and say we are 'attacking you'. Cover over what he said as nothing of substance and just say 'pray' for enlightenment. Then use Fr. Hewko for a mascot or something. That's called crowd control manipulation.
That's why I hate forums. My time is short here.
By the way, Fr. Hewko said many times he believes the bishop is valid. Ask him yourself. He would only like to see some of the things addressed to help the faithful like he said in his sermon. I happened to call Fr. Pfeiffer last night if Fr. Hewko heard his conference yet. He said yes and relayed his comment, 'Its about time.'
So stop dividing the priests for your own ends! Fr. Hewko said the bishop is valid!
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