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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2018 18:56:02 GMT
Have you trads lost your critical thinking? The disingenuity is disturbing. "Why one cathedral is not used over another, or, why the age requirement is different in this circumstance, or he's an "orthodox" through and through and can't be accepted............! Give me "MORE" proof he was associated with cardinal Slipyj.........!" People, Cardinal Slipyj and Bishop Moran are from novus ordo land. They operated in novus ordo land. Ecumenism was and is still a practice of the main stream.........this is normal stuff. Get it! The universe of the 70'-80's was ecumenical co-mingling as is 90's onward......... Why are you trads so smug with a legitimate bishop who CONVERTED recently to the fight of traditionalism right in front of you and you reject him because it is not to your view of a 'saint'.
I recently came from the novus ordo land, through the sspx conspiracy, through bishop Williamson's mockery. You trads can't even see providence right in front of you? You act like pharisees quibbling separating facts making incoherent conspiracies while looking for a different 'savior' to help. Who's church is it?
It's so simple. Stick to the facts. Fr. Pfeiffer explained what the church teaches. He said when you are catholic there is a different criteria making valid, even done by an orthodox bishop, harmonious to other catholic sacraments. If you are not catholic, NOTHING happens. So you trads either follow what the church teaches or continue to make your own counterfeit church.
The summary of father's talk is clear proving catholic heritage. Look at all the many photos on the Bishop Moran website showing Catholicisms. ambrosemoran.wordpress.com/ Are you denying what your eyes can see as catholic? Why are you trads mocking the church?
Look at all the photos of him professed as a catholic priest and a catholic bishop! Stop living in denial.
Administering the Sacrament of Confirmation in the Latin Rite:
Archbishop Ambrose after offering Mass in the Tridentine Rite:
It's only when I found that Bishop Moran website I was convinced Larossa [please be respectful and use the correct spelling of La Rosa - I write this in case you were unaware...] and others were committing fraud conjecturing conspiracies.
Look at the newest perpetuation of fraud Larossa put on his site yesterday in his "Massachusetts Mission Breaks with the Kentucky Fathers". He conspires with people in massachusetts to openly lie making a false quote from Fr. Pfeiffer as if father said such a thing.
A. Father does not call him Ambrose Moran. Larossa who calls him that. Father calls him Archbishop Ambrose.
B. The first sentence is not written in the singular, 'I intend'. It reads as a third person's interpretation.
C. Father never said in any of his public talks he has a doubt of lying. That is a third person's fraudulent message. Father said clearly he first bases the legitimacy of Bishop Moran through canon law on the consecration from the eight bishops. Like Fr. Hewko said, it is a "small matter" regarding Cardinal Slipyj's consecration. D. They ended it by putting fathers name as stating those are his actual words.
Who's conning who? Those people have no conscience breaking the 8th commandment of God. And you want us to dialogue with this evil conspiracy.
Back to the real evidence.
Fr. Pfeiffer expounded the Church teaching on the valid consecration by the eight bishops. Bishop Moran is valid. Period. Even if he was consecrated by the orthodox. If you trads want to quibble with the accidentals afterwards, it makes no difference. The same reason in makes no difference from all the millions of catholic people doing crazy things in their life and "converted back" to catholicism in the present. Do you fundamental trads have no mercy on souls in the present? You guys act like a democracy demanding signs and wonders, or saying "he didn't confess to my ears" means nothing to a proud generation.
I don't want to waste your time repeating the obvious and I do not want my time wasted. Use some critical thinking. Why do you remain stiff necked?
Until you trads can first give an answer to all those many catholic photos, you only perpetuate conspiracy AGAINST the teaching church.
What ever happens afterward the consecration happens afterwards. The Fathers said in their conference Bishop Moran made a profession of the catholic faith in front of them......and everything needed through canon law.
Your quibbling otherwise only tears the church apart.
I'm done.
Remy, please be aware that while this is a situation about which many feel very acutely one way or the other, it doesn't mean you can keep using sarcasm and denigration in your defense or apologia of Bp. Ambrose.
Watch yourself.
Why do you and others always avoid the catholic photos on that website? You have not answered its basic glaring statement, it proves Bishop Moran is catholic, instead you derail it making up some moral dominance of "your uncharitable". Clearly there is a double standard here.
Please answer the question what your eyes can see. It is a photographic answer he is catholic contrary to the objections he is not. Have to start somewhere than on the fraud conspired from the left (or far right?).
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Post by Admin on Dec 11, 2018 19:02:09 GMT
Remy, please be aware that while this is a situation about which many feel very acutely one way or the other, it doesn't mean you can keep using sarcasm and denigration in your defense or apologia of Bp. Ambrose.
Watch yourself.
Why do you and others always avoid the catholic photos on that website? You have not answered its basic glaring statement, it proves Bishop Moran is catholic, instead you derail it making up some moral dominance of "your uncharitable". Clearly there is a double standard here.
Please answer the question what your eyes can see. It is a photographic answer he is catholic contrary to the objections he is not. Have to start somewhere than on the fraud conspired from the left (or far right?). Please, Remy, do not start accusing people of not answering questions for this is something you yourself have demonstrated multiple times the last several days.
Again, please check the hostility. It's really not necessary among Catholics...
And because neither I nor anyone else didn't fire back with a lengthy response doesn't mean it won't happen  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2018 19:13:43 GMT
Why do you and others always avoid the catholic photos on that website? You have not answered its basic glaring statement, it proves Bishop Moran is catholic, instead you derail it making up some moral dominance of "your uncharitable". Clearly there is a double standard here.
Please answer the question what your eyes can see. It is a photographic answer he is catholic contrary to the objections he is not. Have to start somewhere than on the fraud conspired from the left (or far right?). Please, Remy, do not start accusing people of not answering questions for this is something you yourself have demonstrated multiple times the last several days.
Again, please check the hostility. It's really not necessary among Catholics...
And because neither I nor anyone else didn't fire back with a lengthy response doesn't mean it won't happen The double standard is too Funny. You can prove this catacomb website doesn't derail and linger with conspiracy. Still waiting for days for some catholic commentary on those abundant catholic photos......... ambrosemoran.wordpress.com/
Timeline V
1978: Archbishop Ambrose Moran visits the Traditional Catholic church St. Jude’s Shrine, Texas.
St Judes Shrine 1
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Post by S.A.G. on Dec 11, 2018 19:53:34 GMT
Remy these are pictures of him posing. No proof. Just because it's typed below the picture:
Administering the Sacrament of Confirmation in the Latin Rite proves nothing and he is not administering the sacrament. He's posing in front of a camera for pictures to be taken but not ADMINISTERING the sacrament as you post and want people to believe.
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Post by Elizabeth on Dec 11, 2018 20:11:22 GMT
Remy these are pictures of him posing. No proof. Just because it's typed below the picture:
Administering the Sacrament of Confirmation in the Latin Rite proves nothing and he is not administering the sacrament. He's posing in front of a camera for pictures to be taken but not ADMINISTERING the sacrament as you post and want people to believe.
I agree. It confused me how it says that he is administering the Sacrament of Confirmation, but in the picture you just see him posing for a picture outside of the church. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2018 20:31:26 GMT
Remy these are pictures of him posing. No proof. Just because it's typed below the picture:
Administering the Sacrament of Confirmation in the Latin Rite proves nothing and he is not administering the sacrament. He's posing in front of a camera for pictures to be taken but not ADMINISTERING the sacrament as you post and want people to believe.
You missed the point. Look at what he's wearing and surrounded by, Catholic vestments, Catholic altars, Catholic.........! ALL the photos show he is Catholic. Go to the website and see more. ambrosemoran.wordpress.com/
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Post by Admin on Dec 11, 2018 20:44:31 GMT
Have you trads lost your critical thinking? The disingenuity is disturbing. "Why one cathedral is not used over another, or, why the age requirement is different in this circumstance, or he's an "orthodox" through and through and can't be accepted............! Give me "MORE" proof he was associated with cardinal Slipyj.........!" People, Cardinal Slipyj and Bishop Moran are from novus ordo land. They operated in novus ordo land. Ecumenism was and is still a practice of the main stream.........this is normal stuff. Get it! The universe of the 70'-80's was ecumenical co-mingling as is 90's onward......... Why are you trads so smug with a legitimate bishop who CONVERTED recently to the fight of traditionalism right in front of you and you reject him because it is not to your view of a 'saint'. [...]
The age requirement for elevation to the episcopacy is an important consideration.
So far as we know, there was no time Cardinal Slipyj broke canon law. A consecration of Bp. Ambrose at the age of 27 by the Cardinal would do just that, both in the Latin rite and the Eastern [Catholic] Canon law. Why would Cardinal Slipyj do that? Cui bono? Why would the Cardinal subject himself to ecclesiastical censure and penalties? He could validly and legitimately consecrate anyone he wanted at his level in the hierarchy. Why should he break canon law to consecrate a 27 year old bishop - who, as far as we can tell, did not even function within that same Ukrainian Greek Catholic rite of Cardinal Slipyj's?
At this point, unless something else comes to light, Bp. Ambrose is implying Cardinal Slipyj broke canon law just for him. This would be an accusation against the Cardinal's good name and reputation - a man who spent 18 years in a Soviet prison in defense of the Faith, refusing an early release if he joined the Russian Orthodox Church as a high-ranking prelate. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josyf_Slipyj |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2018 21:08:35 GMT
Have you trads lost your critical thinking? The disingenuity is disturbing. "Why one cathedral is not used over another, or, why the age requirement is different in this circumstance, or he's an "orthodox" through and through and can't be accepted............! Give me "MORE" proof he was associated with cardinal Slipyj.........!" People, Cardinal Slipyj and Bishop Moran are from novus ordo land. They operated in novus ordo land. Ecumenism was and is still a practice of the main stream.........this is normal stuff. Get it! The universe of the 70'-80's was ecumenical co-mingling as is 90's onward......... Why are you trads so smug with a legitimate bishop who CONVERTED recently to the fight of traditionalism right in front of you and you reject him because it is not to your view of a 'saint'. [...]
The age requirement for elevation to the episcopacy is an important consideration.
So far as we know, there was no time Cardinal Slipyj broke canon law. A consecration of Bp. Ambrose would do just that, both in the Latin rite and the Eastern [Catholic] Canon law. Why would Cardinal Slipyj do that? Cui bono? Why would the Cardinal subject himself to ecclesiastical censure and penalties? He could validly and legitimately consecrate anyone he wanted at his level in the hierarchy. Why should he break canon law to consecrate a 27 year old bishop - who, as far as we can tell, did not operate within that same Ukrainian Greek Catholic rite of Cardinal Slipyj's?
At this point, unless something else comes to light, Bp. Ambrose is implying Cardinal Slipyj broke canon law just for him.
You missed the point. Don't you live contrary to the letter of canon law going to mass as you do? Can you answer why you do what you do now? Is there a crisis for you? Same answer Cardinal Slipyj showed his actions to be in a time of catacomb urgency fearing rome hurting the Ukrainians further. He ordained and consecrated to build. Same as the early church did. So your question is mute to the situation these prelates found themselves in as archbishop lefebvre did.
The foundational question is whether Bishop Moran is valid by church law before you can go any further. Fr. Pfeiffer proved this by canon law within his conferences you keep avoiding and the photographic evidence on that website proves Bishop Moran is administrating catholic sacraments. ambrosemoran.wordpress.com/
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2018 21:34:21 GMT
Have you trads lost your critical thinking? The disingenuity is disturbing. "Why one cathedral is not used over another, or, why the age requirement is different in this circumstance, or he's an "orthodox" through and through and can't be accepted............! Give me "MORE" proof he was associated with cardinal Slipyj.........!" People, Cardinal Slipyj and Bishop Moran are from novus ordo land. They operated in novus ordo land. Ecumenism was and is still a practice of the main stream.........this is normal stuff. Get it! The universe of the 70'-80's was ecumenical co-mingling as is 90's onward......... Why are you trads so smug with a legitimate bishop who CONVERTED recently to the fight of traditionalism right in front of you and you reject him because it is not to your view of a 'saint'. [...]
The age requirement for elevation to the episcopacy is an important consideration.
So far as we know, there was no time Cardinal Slipyj broke canon law. A consecration of Bp. Ambrose at the age of 27 by the Cardinal would do just that, both in the Latin rite and the Eastern [Catholic] Canon law. Why would Cardinal Slipyj do that? Cui bono? Why would the Cardinal subject himself to ecclesiastical censure and penalties? He could validly and legitimately consecrate anyone he wanted at his level in the hierarchy. Why should he break canon law to consecrate a 27 year old bishop - who, as far as we can tell, did not even function within that same Ukrainian Greek Catholic rite of Cardinal Slipyj's?
At this point, unless something else comes to light, Bp. Ambrose is implying Cardinal Slipyj broke canon law just for him. This would be an accusation against the Cardinal's good name and reputation - a man who spent 18 years in a Soviet prison in defense of the Faith, refusing an early release if he joined the Russian Orthodox Church as a high-ranking prelate. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josyf_SlipyjPoor arguments. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2018 21:35:12 GMT
The age requirement for elevation to the episcopacy is an important consideration.
So far as we know, there was no time Cardinal Slipyj broke canon law. A consecration of Bp. Ambrose would do just that, both in the Latin rite and the Eastern [Catholic] Canon law. Why would Cardinal Slipyj do that? Cui bono? Why would the Cardinal subject himself to ecclesiastical censure and penalties? He could validly and legitimately consecrate anyone he wanted at his level in the hierarchy. Why should he break canon law to consecrate a 27 year old bishop - who, as far as we can tell, did not operate within that same Ukrainian Greek Catholic rite of Cardinal Slipyj's?
At this point, unless something else comes to light, Bp. Ambrose is implying Cardinal Slipyj broke canon law just for him.
You missed the point. Don't you live contrary to the letter of canon law going to mass as you do? Can you answer why you do what you do now? Is there a crisis for you? Same answer Cardinal Slipyj showed his actions to be in a time of catacomb urgency fearing rome hurting the Ukrainians further. He ordained and consecrated to build. Same as the early church did. So your question is mute to the situation these prelates found themselves in as archbishop lefebvre did.
The foundational question is whether Bishop Moran is valid by church law before you can go any further. Fr. Pfeiffer proved this by canon law within his conferences you keep avoiding and the photographic evidence on that website proves Bishop Moran is administrating catholic sacraments. ambrosemoran.wordpress.com/
Good points. |
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Post by Elizabeth on Dec 11, 2018 22:44:30 GMT
The age requirement for elevation to the episcopacy is an important consideration.
So far as we know, there was no time Cardinal Slipyj broke canon law. A consecration of Bp. Ambrose would do just that, both in the Latin rite and the Eastern [Catholic] Canon law. Why would Cardinal Slipyj do that? Cui bono? Why would the Cardinal subject himself to ecclesiastical censure and penalties? He could validly and legitimately consecrate anyone he wanted at his level in the hierarchy. Why should he break canon law to consecrate a 27 year old bishop - who, as far as we can tell, did not operate within that same Ukrainian Greek Catholic rite of Cardinal Slipyj's?
At this point, unless something else comes to light, Bp. Ambrose is implying Cardinal Slipyj broke canon law just for him.
You missed the point. Don't you live contrary to the letter of canon law going to mass as you do? Can you answer why you do what you do now? Is there a crisis for you? Same answer Cardinal Slipyj showed his actions to be in a time of catacomb urgency fearing rome hurting the Ukrainians further. He ordained and consecrated to build. Same as the early church did. So your question is mute to the situation these prelates found themselves in as archbishop lefebvre did.
The foundational question is whether Bishop Moran is valid by church law before you can go any further. Fr. Pfeiffer proved this by canon law within his conferences you keep avoiding and the photographic evidence on that website proves Bishop Moran is administrating catholic sacraments. ambrosemoran.wordpress.com/
Archbishop Lefebvre follow the rules of the Council of Trent when he consecrated Bishop Fellay.
Am I understanding correctly, that Christ's religious and faithful get to decide when to follow Canon Law and when to break to it?
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Post by Hildegard on Dec 12, 2018 0:07:23 GMT
The age requirement for elevation to the episcopacy is an important consideration.
So far as we know, there was no time Cardinal Slipyj broke canon law. A consecration of Bp. Ambrose at the age of 27 by the Cardinal would do just that, both in the Latin rite and the Eastern [Catholic] Canon law. Why would Cardinal Slipyj do that? Cui bono? Why would the Cardinal subject himself to ecclesiastical censure and penalties? He could validly and legitimately consecrate anyone he wanted at his level in the hierarchy. Why should he break canon law to consecrate a 27 year old bishop - who, as far as we can tell, did not even function within that same Ukrainian Greek Catholic rite of Cardinal Slipyj's?
At this point, unless something else comes to light, Bp. Ambrose is implying Cardinal Slipyj broke canon law just for him. This would be an accusation against the Cardinal's good name and reputation - a man who spent 18 years in a Soviet prison in defense of the Faith, refusing an early release if he joined the Russian Orthodox Church as a high-ranking prelate. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josyf_SlipyjPoor arguments. Why are they poor arguments? |
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Post by Initiation on Dec 12, 2018 0:20:34 GMT
Why is it that we must fight because we disagree? If we do not want to follow Father Pfeiffer in his decision on Ambrose Moran, why must we be attacked for it? This discussion is not the center of our Faith after all. Where is the mention of God? Do you all believe that God wants this and that the fruits from this Ambrose Moran situation is good? I don't believe so. But that is my personal opinion and I will not try to convince you all to change your minds.
I have made my personal choice, you all have made yours. If God provides good solid facts in favour of Ambrose Moran then so be it but so far we have prayed and all that has come up is stuff in the negative and we have looked over everything. Everything is about Ambrose Moran and Father Pfeiffer, our Faith is not the center anymore.
If you all can provide the same facts over and over again for Ambrose Moran bring a valid Catholic Bishop, then we can provide information that he might not be.
If we disagree on the matter than respect that, we are all entitled to do what we believe is best for our souls. We will not all agree on it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2018 0:57:51 GMT
Why is it that we must fight because we disagree? If we do not want to follow Father Pfeiffer in his decision on Ambrose Moran, why must we be attacked for it? This discussion is not the center of our Faith after all. Where is the mention of God? Do you all believe that God wants this and that the fruits from this Ambrose Moran situation is good? I don't believe so. But that is my personal opinion and I will not try to convince you all to change your minds. I have made my personal choice, you all have made yours. If God provides good solid facts in favour of Ambrose Moran then so be it but so far we have prayed and all that has come up is stuff in the negative and we have looked over everything. Everything is about Ambrose Moran and Father Pfeiffer, our Faith is not the center anymore. If you all can provide the same facts over and over again for Ambrose Moran bring a valid Catholic Bishop, then we can provide information that he might not be. If we disagree on the matter than respect that, we are all entitled to do what we believe is best for our souls. We will not all agree on it. You are portraying relativism. The disingenuity is not being honest to what the church teaches. This was discussed many times. You can flash alleged orthodox documents all you want. If you don't know or ignore how the church teaches in these matters, the disbelief is with yourselves. Not with us. These photos manifest catholic heritage. Can you explain them as he is orthodox only so the conspiracy wants everyone to believe? What do your eyes see? You can't discount it with relativism. ambrosemoran.wordpress.com/
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2018 1:07:46 GMT
Why is it that we must fight because we disagree? If we do not want to follow Father Pfeiffer in his decision on Ambrose Moran, why must we be attacked for it? This discussion is not the center of our Faith after all. Where is the mention of God? Do you all believe that God wants this and that the fruits from this Ambrose Moran situation is good? I don't believe so. But that is my personal opinion and I will not try to convince you all to change your minds. I have made my personal choice, you all have made yours. If God provides good solid facts in favour of Ambrose Moran then so be it but so far we have prayed and all that has come up is stuff in the negative and we have looked over everything. Everything is about Ambrose Moran and Father Pfeiffer, our Faith is not the center anymore. If you all can provide the same facts over and over again for Ambrose Moran bring a valid Catholic Bishop, then we can provide information that he might not be. If we disagree on the matter than respect that, we are all entitled to do what we believe is best for our souls. We will not all agree on it. Well then why do you post here? Maybe you should move on. This is a website that supports OLMC and OLMC is working with Bishop Ambrose as seen in a recent statement from Fr. Pfeiffer. Admin got the blessing of the OLMC priests before the website was started. Either the website should be shut down and restarted with no affiliation with OLMC or those who are against Father’s decision should go somewhere else. |
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