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Post by Admin on Aug 11, 2019 17:04:14 GMT
It would appear that Moran is continuing to make inroads amongst the OLMC laity.
Last evening, I was sent the following two videos by the Catacombs member, Hildegard.
In the first video, Fr. Poisson is saying Mass in a chapel on July 7th, 2019. The video may be found here.
What makes this particular chapel interesting is that, as Hildegard aptly pointed out, Moran appears to be saying Mass in that very same chapel approximately one month later, August 4th, 2019. Moran's YouTube channel titles the video (its in two parts): " Wisconsin 8th Sunday after Pentecost." The videos can be found here and here.
Here are screenshots from each of the videos clearly showing the same background, tabernacle, statue of Our Lady of Fatima, etc. (click to enlarge):
Again, these are simply screenshots of the videos linked above.
Now, one could argue that the laity can ask whomever they like to come say Mass. And that would be mostly correct (aside from fact that those who hold to error or are dubious should not be asked to bring the Sacraments).
But just as with the Confirmations by Moran of OLMC laity in May of 2019, we see now he is being asked to come say Mass at OLMC chapels, that he continues to work within OLMC circles.
Many of us know how strongly OLMC has defended their chapels in the past against anyone they don't approve of (remember the strong words of Fr. Pfeiffer when then-Fr. Zendejas was invited by OLMC laity to an OLMC chapel to say Mass and subsequently pulled away a large number of those OLMC laity?).
The question is: was that done here? Was Moran's presence in an OLMC chapel strongly protested against by OLMC?
There are many that are firmly convinced that Moran is not going anywhere, that he will continue to be a strong presence amongst OLMC laity.
This despite the fact that he has surreptitiously 'excommunicated' Fr. Hewko, Mr. Tony la Rosa, and Mr. Greg Taylor, to the scandal of many. And this despite the fact that he does not have any jurisdiction across the three different countries these men reside in, even if he was valid. All with OLMC's tacit approval.
- This despite many other warnings that we should not invite this man into our homes, our lives, or the lives of our children.
Dear friends, how many different ways can Our Lady warn us to stay away from Moran?
It really doesn't look like he is going anywhere, does it?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2019 23:39:33 GMT
And those who refuse to admit of their schismatic past should not be asked to bring the Sacraments.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2019 0:02:15 GMT
It would appear that Moran is continuing to make inroads amongst the OLMC laity.
Last evening, I was sent the following two videos by the Catacombs member, Hildegard.
In the first video, Fr. Poisson is saying Mass in a chapel on July 7th, 2019. The video may be found here.
What makes this particular chapel interesting is that, as Hildegard aptly pointed out, Moran appears to be saying Mass in that very same chapel approximately one month later, August 4th, 2019. Moran's YouTube channel titles the video (its in two parts): " Wisconsin 8th Sunday after Pentecost." The videos can be found here and here.
Here are screenshots from each of the videos clearly showing the same background, tabernacle, statue of Our Lady of Fatima, etc. (click to enlarge):
Again, these are simply screenshots of the videos linked above.
Now, one could argue that the laity can ask whomever they like to come say Mass. And that would be mostly correct (aside from fact that those who hold to error or are dubious should not be asked to bring the Sacraments).
But just as with the Confirmations by Moran of OLMC laity in May of 2019, we see now he is being asked to come say Mass at OLMC chapels, that he continues to work within OLMC circles.
Many of us know how strongly OLMC has defended their chapels in the past against anyone they don't approve of (remember the strong words of Fr. Pfeiffer when then-Fr. Zendejas was invited by OLMC laity to an OLMC chapel to say Mass and subsequently pulled away a large number of those OLMC laity?).
The question is: was that done here? Was Moran's presence in an OLMC chapel strongly protested against by OLMC?
There are many that are firmly convinced that Moran is not going anywhere, that he will continue to be a strong presence amongst OLMC laity.
This despite the fact that he has surreptitiously 'excommunicated' Fr. Hewko, Mr. Tony la Rosa, and Mr. Greg Taylor, to the scandal of many. And this despite the fact that he does not have any jurisdiction across the three different countries these men reside in, even if he was valid. All with OLMC's tacit approval.
- This despite many other warnings that we should not invite this man into our homes, our lives, or the lives of our children.
Dear friends, how many different ways can Our Lady warn us to stay away from Moran?
It really doesn't look like he is going anywhere, does it?
Dear Admin, Fr. Hewko, Fr. Pfeiffer and Bp. Moran have parted ways. If the question about Bp. Moran visiting chapels is posed to OLMC, then we have the case of Fr. Hewko who has parted ways with OLMC, but is offering Masses at OLMC chapels. But that is not being called into question? Pax Christi |
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Post by hermenegild on Aug 12, 2019 0:20:48 GMT
IM, I think you’ve completely missed the point.
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Post by Fidelis on Aug 12, 2019 1:15:54 GMT
It appears Ambrose fake Moran is continuing the infiltration. Why isn't Fr Pfeiffer speaking out against this? He must be still considering him for ordinations.
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Post by amicus on Aug 12, 2019 1:39:58 GMT
Dear Admin,
Fr. Hewko, Fr. Pfeiffer and Bp. Moran have parted ways. If the question about Bp. Moran visiting chapels is posed to OLMC, then we have the case of Fr. Hewko who has parted ways with OLMC, but is offering Masses at OLMC chapels. But that is not being called into question?
Pax Christi
Im,
Yes, Fr. Hewko separated from OLMC and those who have also left OLMC go to his Mass. Followers of Fr. Pfeiffer choose
not to go to Fr. Hewko's Mass (that is their right).
Why then if Moran is no longer connected in any way to OLMC is he saying Mass in the same Mass Centers with OLMC laity.
OLMC laity have the right to go to either, so why not come to Fr. Hewko's Mass ?
There seems to be a clear separation with Fr. Hewko, but not so much with Moran.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2019 2:25:25 GMT
Dear Admin, Fr. Hewko, Fr. Pfeiffer and Bp. Moran have parted ways. If the question about Bp. Moran visiting chapels is posed to OLMC, then we have the case of Fr. Hewko who has parted ways with OLMC, but is offering Masses at OLMC chapels. But that is not being called into question? Pax Christi Im, Yes, Fr. Hewko separated from OLMC and those who have also left OLMC go to his Mass. Followers of Fr. Pfeiffer choose not to go to Fr. Hewko's Mass (that is their right). Why then if Moran is no longer connected in any way to OLMC is he saying Mass in the same Mass Centers with OLMC laity. OLMC laity have the right to go to either, so why not come to Fr. Hewko's Mass ? There seems to be a clear separation with Fr. Hewko, but not so much with Moran. Dear Amicus, We agree that Fr. Hewko separated from OLMC. As you have observed, what the followers choose is their right. It is akin to those who choose to go to SSPX or Bp. Willamson masses, etc. Now we have Bp. Moran. He separated from OLMC as well as Fr. Pfeiffer and Fr. Hewko, and as you say, those who want to go to his Mass or not go to his Mass (that is their right). If Fr. Hewko is no longer connected in any way to OLMC and there is a clear separation, why then does he say Mass in the same Mass centers with OLMC laity? Why the issue of Bp. Moran, when Fr. Pfeiffer and Fr. Hewko have parted ways with him? Does anyone here still bring up the issue of Bp. Fellay and Fr. Pfeiffer and Fr. Hewko, when both Priests have parted ways with him? Pax Christi. |
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Post by amicus on Aug 12, 2019 2:39:09 GMT
You are still missing what is being said. Why are the OLMC laity still going to Moran if there is (or has been) a separation from him.
Has Fr. Pfeiffer made it clear to the laity of the dangers of going to the questionable Mass of Moran?
As far as I know the OLMC laity doesn't go to the Mass of separated Fr. Hewko and there is nothing questionable about Fr. Hewko's Mass.
Just makes one think how much separation is there from Moran?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2019 3:09:52 GMT
You are still missing what is being said. Why are the OLMC laity still going to Moran if there is (or has been) a separation from him. Has Fr. Pfeiffer made it clear to the laity of the dangers of going to the questionable Mass of Moran? As far as I know the OLMC laity doesn't go to the Mass of separated Fr. Hewko and there is nothing questionable about Fr. Hewko's Mass. Just makes one think how much separation is there from Moran? Dear Amicus, You are also missing the point. As you have observed, what the followers choose is their right. Thus the followers can choose to go to Fr. Hewko or Fr. Pfeiffer or Bp. Williamson, Bp. Fellay, Pope Francis, etc. Masses, as that is the followers right. Please keep in mind that that Fr. Hewko, Fr. Pfeiffer and Bp Moran have parted ways. If you have any questions, do ask the Priests. Regarding your comment about Fr. Hewko's Masses - Fr. Hewko's position states that New Rite ordinations and Episcopal consecrations are dubious. Fr. Hewko's position brings up a problem because we've already had a Pope (Benedict XVI) and now have a Pope (Francis) consecrated in the New Rite. How does one explain this? Pax Christi. |
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Post by Juan Diego on Aug 12, 2019 3:41:45 GMT
Truth to be told im is that the laity called Fr. Hewko and asked him to come these Mass centers because they are no longer OLMC Mass centers. Our Mass center once was but no longer is an OLMC Mass center. Our Mass center stopped being OLMC Mass center before Fr. Hewko even left.
Also there are Mass centers that completely separated from OLMC way back in 2015 over the Moran debacle. This year Fr. Hewko was called by those faithful because he made it clear Moran is dubious, which these faithful already knew, and he was Orthodox. No Catholic can have anything to do with him because that is what the Catholic Church teaches.
What you label as OLMC Mass centers in fact are not OLMC Mass centers. Fr. Hewko has more than once said he will go where ever the faithful call him.
The picture you're trying to paint is disingenuous.
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Post by Admin on Aug 12, 2019 10:48:42 GMT
Dear Admin, Fr. Hewko, Fr. Pfeiffer and Bp. Moran have parted ways. If the question about Bp. Moran visiting chapels is posed to OLMC, then we have the case of Fr. Hewko who has parted ways with OLMC, but is offering Masses at OLMC chapels. But that is not being called into question?
Pax Christi
As others have clearly pointed out, immaculatemary, you have missed the point of the OP.
The point being made is that despite the words of OLMC parting ways with Moran, he continues to be a presence in OLMC circles with no clear nor repeated warning from OLMC not to have anything to do with him because of his dubious credentials or lack thereof.
And again, as has been aptly pointed out in the subsequent posts in reply to your above statement about Fr. Hewko saying Mass in OLMC chapels:
1. This is making this issue polemical. This is not a Fr. Pfeiffer - Fr. Hewko issue. This is a Moran issue, who is clearly still welcome in OLMC circles despite the "Disassociation" made by Fr. Pfeiffer earlier this year. Actions speak louder than words.
2. Also as has been pointed out, with Fr. Hewko's departure, large swaths of people left those same OLMC chapels you refer to. So , it's rather disingenous to call them OLMC chapels when Fr. Hewko is saying Masses for souls who have left OLMC and have called him for the Sacraments.
Ironically, in the OP the only mention of Fr. Hewko was to note that he was the subject of a fake excommunication by Moran.
This is an OLMC-Moran issue.
Fr. Hewko has little to do with it other than having our gratitude for sounding the alarm and warning souls to not be associated with a dubious person who cannot prove he is what he says he is - and so much so is Fr. Hewko's point (about the dubiousness of Moran) valid that even OLMC had to 'disassociate for the exact same reason.
Again, this is making this polemical. There is zero need for it. Let's not derail this thread into a quarrel over who has which chapels. That is not the point. Archbishop Lefebvre avoided polemics. It was always about the Faith, about doctrine. Once again, I repeat, the point that is being made is that despite the words of 'disassociation' with Moran, he continued to move in OLMC circles, as the OP points out. What that means is that a doubtful bishop is giving doubtful Sacraments to OLMC laity. That is the issue and it concerns the faith because we have a duty to avoid doubtful Sacraments, doubtful things.
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Post by Admin on Aug 12, 2019 11:08:45 GMT
Dear Amicus, You are also missing the point. As you have observed, what the followers choose is their right. Thus the followers can choose to go to Fr. Hewko or Fr. Pfeiffer or Bp. Williamson, Bp. Fellay, Pope Francis, etc. Masses, as that is the followers right. Please keep in mind that that Fr. Hewko, Fr. Pfeiffer and Bp Moran have parted ways. If you have any questions, do ask the Priests. Regarding your comment about Fr. Hewko's Masses - Fr. Hewko's position states that New Rite ordinations and Episcopal consecrations are dubious. Fr. Hewko's position brings up a problem because we've already had a Pope (Benedict XVI) and now have a Pope (Francis) consecrated in the New Rite. How does one explain this?Pax Christi. immaculatemary,
We are not going to discuss this here (see your words in bold above). This was addressed in another thread on this forum, as you well know. Archbishop Lefebvre has spoken very, very clearly on the doubtfulness of the New Rite Sacraments. As SSPX priests, this is how both Frs. Hewko and Pfeiffer have long preached. It is a change in Fr. Pfeiffer to switch gears and now declare that the New Rite Sacraments are without doubt. This is a Fr. Pfeiffer change. Not an Archbishop Lefebvre change and not a Fr. Hewko change.
If you choose to believe Fr. Pfeiffer in this regard, that is between you. Fr. Pfeiffer, and the good Lord. But do not keep bringing up what has already been addressed here. This forum follows the wisdom of Archbishop Lefebvre in these times, who himself only follows what the Church has always taught. Again, if you wish to part ways with the Archbishop, as OLMC has done on it's position on the doubtfulness of New Rite Sacraments, that is up to you. But it will not be discussed ad nauseam here. Once again, I refer to you Fr. Pfeiffer's words of 2014, speaking clearly on the doubtfulness of New Rite Sacraments - the same doubtfulness you keep insisting Fr. Hewko is wrong for also saying. Note that Fr. Pfeiffer's words in 2014 were also during the Pontificate of Pope Francis.
Again, this is derailing the thread, getting off topic (you have done this twice now in this same thread). This thread is not about Fr. Hewko. To drag him into this on an unrelated issue appears to be nothing but an attempt to deflect and distract from the subject at hand.
At the risk of repeating myself once again, this thread is not about the doubtfulness of the New Rite Sacraments. It's about Moran continuing to be a presences in OLMC circles, despite the OLMC disassociation of early 2019, despite his own doubtful credentials, thereby giving doubtful Sacraments to OLMC laity. That is the subject of this thread. Lets not kick up a lot of dust and deflect from the issue here.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2019 11:44:39 GMT
At the risk of repeating myself once again, this thread is not about the doubtfulness of the New Rite Sacraments. It's about Moran continuing to be a presences in OLMC circles, despite the OLMC disassociation of early 2019, despite his own doubtful credentials, thereby giving doubtful Sacraments to OLMC laity. That is the subject of this thread. Lets not kick up a lot of dust and deflect from the issue here. Come to think about it. Fr. Pfeiffer's "disassociation" of early 2019 is strictly about Ambrose Moran's "episcopal" services. It is not about his "priestly" services. Hence, it explains why Ambrose Moran is celebrating Mass at an OLMC chapel. |
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Post by Admin on Aug 12, 2019 11:51:43 GMT
At the risk of repeating myself once again, this thread is not about the doubtfulness of the New Rite Sacraments. It's about Moran continuing to be a presences in OLMC circles, despite the OLMC disassociation of early 2019, despite his own doubtful credentials, thereby giving doubtful Sacraments to OLMC laity. That is the subject of this thread. Lets not kick up a lot of dust and deflect from the issue here. Come to think about it. Fr. Pfeiffer's "disassociation" of early 2019 is strictly about Ambrose Moran's "episcopal" services. It is not about his "priestly" services. Hence, it explains why Ambrose Moran is celebrating Mass at an OLMC chapel. Consider the episcopal services of the 'confirmations' done in May by Moran.
OLMC could argue that they were done without their knowledge and that may be true. But where is the warning afterwards? Where is the repeated disassociation in light of those 'confirmations'?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2019 11:54:36 GMT
Come to think about it. Fr. Pfeiffer's "disassociation" of early 2019 is strictly about Ambrose Moran's "episcopal" services. It is not about his "priestly" services. Hence, it explains why Ambrose Moran is celebrating Mass at an OLMC chapel. Consider the episcopal services of the 'confirmations' done in May by Moran.
OLMC could argue that they were done without their knowledge and that may be true. But where is the warning afterwards? Where is the repeated disassociation in light of those 'confirmations'?
Yes. Your statement makes sense. I am just wondering whether those "confirmations" were done in OLMC controlled chapels or independently by a few of Fr. Pfeiffer's faithful. |
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