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Post by Admin on May 26, 2018 10:47:21 GMT
How does the Resistance in England and Scotland deal with the temptation of lay control and in regards to the extra Priests that do offer Masses in UK, are they under condition to align themselves to OLMC? To address your question with respect to lay control in a general sense, Fidelis, it goes back to what Edmund posted recently: thecatacombs.org/post/1814. Its about always being oriented to God above and not inwardly to ourselves. It truly has to do with loving God more than ourselves. If we love God more than ourselves, we will always remain humble. When it comes right down to it, isn't it really pride that must be present for lay control to assert itself? Fr. Pfeiffer and Fr. Hewko have preached for years, 'you focus on the doctrine of the priests'. That is how you know who to trust. One of the (very good) resistance coordinators outside the US has frequently said that he worked with and for the SSPX for nearly forty years: "If I had to leave every time some priest made a mistake, I never would have been there more than a few months. There were many mistakes. But the SSPX doctrine was good for those years so I stayed. Once the doctrine in the SSPX changed, then I left."
In these times of crisis of the Faith, we must hold fast to this rule: We focus on the doctrine. If we have good, doctrinally sound priests, especially those who have been ministering to us for years, we must trust them when it comes down to bringing in other priests. It is the hierarchical right of the priest over the laity to direct and guide in spiritual matters.
In the case of Australia, what a relief it would be to the OLMC Fathers to have another good priest available to help, so the Fathers wouldn't have to travel half way across the globe to bring them the sacraments. It is because of their good hearts that the OLMC priests have been doing so and will continue to do so. But if there is not doctrinally sound priest available to do so, then they shoulder the burden themselves. Look at Machabees post above:
If it was a Fr. Cummins mission in Australia, the decision would be his on which other priests to bring into his missions. If it was a Fr. Normandin mission in Canada, the decision would be his to decide which priests to bring in. In these times of crisis, these good priests saw a danger to their flocks (the errors and heresies of Vatican II and all the fruits thereof) and they jealously guarded those souls in their care. It is what makes a good shepard, good.
In times past, the Church provided everything: the location, the altar, the altar supplies, etc. Now, when we are back to Masses in homes and hotels the laity have willingly stepped forward to coordinate and in many instances, provide more than what is needed for the priest to come and say Mass. In their zeal for their faith, they have gone above and beyond to give God their best and provided beautiful altars, altar linens, ciboriums, tabernacles, etc. It comes back to honoring God first and providing all things for His honor and glory. Ad majorem Dei gloriam. These things were always provided by the Church. But we are back in the trenches, back in the Catacombs.
Because of our current battle for the Faith when more help is needed from the laity than in times past than when the Church could provide everything, it is a perfect opportunistic situation for the devil. If he can inflame the pride of the laity to think that they have more power and control than they really do, he can quickly strike the blow to separate them from good priests. Recall this specific error that we were reminded of in the OP from over two hundred years ago:
We must remember this goal of hell: to separate as many good souls from good priests as possible. [It worked really really well at Vatican II.] Once the sheep have lost their good shepard, they are easy fodder. Again, a good shepard jealously guards his sheep. Even if they must guard them against themselves. Sometimes its not always a predator dragging them off, sometimes they want to wander. A good shepard will warn and pull them back.
We must stay focused on the prize. We must stay focused on eternity. If we are focused on eternity, we will not wander. We will not think the proverbial grass is greener on the other side and be continually shopping for other priests ourselves but let God bring them to us. We will have the patience of Job in our tribulations and trials. And in all things we will say, Blessed be God.
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Post by Resistance UK on May 26, 2018 11:04:04 GMT
How does the Resistance in England and Scotland deal with the temptation of lay control and in regards to the extra Priests that do offer Masses in UK, are they under condition to align themselves to OLMC? There is no lay control. It was started by Fr Pfeiffer. He is the one who has the final say. Any priests who are against him help the Bishop Williamson faction instead.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2018 13:23:02 GMT
How does the Resistance in England and Scotland deal with the temptation of lay control and in regards to the extra Priests that do offer Masses in UK, are they under condition to align themselves to OLMC? There is no lay control. It was started by Fr Pfeiffer. He is the one who has the final say. Any priests who are against him help the Bishop Williamson faction instead. This is a good point: “ Any priests who are against him help the Bishop Williamson faction instead.” Our Lord said: “ He that is not with me, is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.” If people/groups separate from the OLMC, which is the only organization which teaches true Catholic doctrine and continues the line of Archbishop Lefebvre, they weaken it and thus work against the fight for the Truth, the fight to guard the Deposit of Faith. This can also be applied to Fr. Raphel. His doctrine is good and he is against Bishop Williamson and his errors, but by working against the OLMC, he works against the organization that stands for the Truth and he doesn’t construct but breaks down, thus working against Our Lord. “ He that is not with me, is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.”
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Post by Fidelis on May 26, 2018 13:53:41 GMT
Is a Priest at liberty to begin it's own particular Mission with the principles of the OLMC which is the True Faith but remain independent. Eg A Franciscan Mission or Dominican Mission etc?
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rose
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Post by rose on May 26, 2018 15:02:02 GMT
How does the Resistance in England and Scotland deal with the temptation of lay control and in regards to the extra Priests that do offer Masses in UK, are they under condition to align themselves to OLMC? Hi, After speaking personally to Fr Ribas concerning this matter, he told me he didn't understand there to be a parish situation in the UK, he certainly did not understand that he was here in the UK under the authority of anyone. A close member of my family spoke to Fr Fuchs who said in our current situation there are no parishes. From our conversations it was obvious that neither of them understood that they were aligned to OLMC, if that is meant to mean they are under some sort of authority. With regards to Fr King who says regular Masses in the north of England, Wales and Scotland he doesn't consider himself aligned with OLMC either, he gives this statement in each newsletter "Father Brendan King is a Catholic Priest ordained by Archbishop Lefebvre in 1987 at Econe, Switzerland. No longer able in conscience to support Bishop Fellay’s betrayal of the Traditional cause and Archbishop Lefebvre’s legacy, he strives as an independent Priest and with the grace of God, to be faithful to tradition without compromise to Liberalism or Modernism, in the spirit of Archbishop Lefebvre." Hope this helps.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2018 15:43:47 GMT
How does the Resistance in England and Scotland deal with the temptation of lay control and in regards to the extra Priests that do offer Masses in UK, are they under condition to align themselves to OLMC? Thank you for the question. This topic is a perfect example of Catholic universality within the Four Marks of the Church: One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic.Catholic means Universal. Contrary to the facade and in fact fraud some in the OLSC now profess, the SSPX-mc/OLMC priests are first and foremost SSPX priests. Never left the SSPX order; never choose to leave the SSPX order, never promote to leave the SSPX order (unlike Bishop Williamson spinning duplicity and now the SAJM from bishops faure and Zendejas to gain numbers in their proud separate enterprise). These SSPX-mc/OLMC priests continue the work of the SSPX. One day, God willing in his mercy, if the present liberal SSPX superiors causing this chaos convert back to their Catholic ways (old-SSPX), all of the SSPX-mc/OLMC missions around the world will be a part of and whole of the total Archbishop Lefebvre as they are created and exist today; as has happened throughout the history of the Church. We are all baptized Catholics! These SSPX-mc/OLMC priests, as they have said many times, are still SSPX priests doing the missions from whence it was created and sent in mission by the will of God. Thus, there are many SSPX priests and SSPX priest friends who are in other countries who still help each other in the WHOLE of the Church spreading Christ's Kingdom. Take England and Ireland for example; Austria, Mexico, USA, Philippines, France, Spain... From Fr. King in the north of England/Scotland helping maintain the faith to those asking him; Fr. Bufe in the north of Ireland; Fr. Fuchs in Austria/England/ Sweden and many other places he travels bringing Christ to souls; Fr. Ribas too in Spain, and other countries he visits; Fr. Cadozo in South America, and other priests I do not keep track of in other countries. There is constant interchange and familiarity between all of these priests with apostolates and masses helping ALL catholic souls who call upon them. There are no proud lay groups dictating what and where. That is not Catholic! We all are happy with the priests He sends us. It shows any time some people have a personal beef with a priest (any priest) they clamor and make up other things to drag them in the proverbial mud; they drag the Church in the mud too. Error enters into their mind unfortunately by their unchecked passions, thus beginning to foster doctrinal and ecclesiastical errors making up things that do not exist. This is how heresy starts; first by the passions. This is why we at TheCatacombs.org chose to correct these wrong doings hoping all concerned will learn and focus on the Cross than their OWN or anyone's interests but of God's. How many times have you seen Fr. Pfeiffer trying to organize all these priests to come together...from conferences, BW's anniversary, Priests meetings, retreats, anything to continue the work of the Church and help each other spread the Faith? So please! Why is it we Catholics, especially those in tradition, are questioning all of this momentum and progress to preach and build missions around the world? Why are we talking about the novus ordo mass again? Why are so many disgruntled individuals so obsessed with themselves and not the mission of the Church? Why does selfishness prevail and not universality of God's interests? Has cognitive dissonance has set in? Some of the disgruntled can say all day long their false narrations, it doesn't change the facts. They only fight against God Himself. So there are no "lay groups" separate from the work or the universal Church. We all work in interchange the SAME as the Church blesses. Look at the wonders of St. Francis and St. Benedict working together and the blesses St. Francis de Sales... It has always been in the revolution of many to first draw a separation where there is none to make a wedge and isolation where there is none, to play the devils game of divide and conquer. Silly people, there is no division in God and what God had willed. If you do so, you fight against God! So if OLSC would stop parsing and complaining about themselves, there can be a fruitful environment God can brings His priests into. Until then, their stubborn blindness holds God's blessings away...that is right in front of them. So this "separatist" mentality is the false narration from the OLSC people. No, we are Catholic and fight for the Oneness of God and His Church.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2018 16:01:49 GMT
Is a Priest at liberty to begin it's own particular Mission with the principles of the OLMC which is the True Faith but remain independent. Eg A Franciscan Mission or Dominican Mission etc? This is really a technical question NO priest or bishop can "begin" their own mission without the explicit permission from the Church. This was discussed by the fraud of Bishop Faure's SAJM enterprise here SAJM: An Approved Congregation or Illegally Erected?However every priest, who are helpers to the bishops (apostles in the Church), have a mission from Christ to go out to preach and baptize. So there is a practical mission to do this and organize in this terrible crisis we are all conflicted with. I condemn as the Church does this idea there needs to be all of these "lay structures" and loose priest organizations bishop Williamson promotes setting a selfish uncatholic view and tone because BW is too lazy and lacks faith as a Bishop of the Church. Have we digressed so much as a traditional Catholic people in so little time? What a punishment. Regarding your question "in the principles of the OLMC" was already addressed in the post previous. The "OLMC" are SSPX priests who never left their SSPX order maintain still their SSPX Statues and Constitutions like the Church has always done in other Professed Orders when there is a liberal split. For the rest of us, St. Ignatius instructs when in time of confusion, do not make changes. Stay the course until God provides otherwise. With OLSC making their personal problem with a singular priest into a false ecclesiastical narration is wrong and they need to stop that nonsense less they remove God who sent them.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2018 19:19:11 GMT
Questions for those few disturbed in the OLSC who push the false narrative "father doesn't want us to have or go to other priests". "He wants to 'demand' and put 'conditions' on us not to have other priests come to the mission".Whose Mission is it? SSPX-mc/OLMC or your own? If it is SSPX-mc/OLMC as the Fathers represent, and do nothing outside of it, and started a SSPX-mc/OLMC mission in Australia in 2013: - What is wrong for Catholics to go to any other true Catholic priests? Nothing!
- What is wrong for Catholics to mingle with other Catholics? Nothing!
- What is wrong with Catholics going to the order of Benedictines for the sacraments one week and go to the SSPX-mc/OLMC order the next and (whoever) Catholic order the next after that? Nothing!
- What is wrong for Catholics to respect the charism of one Catholic order and another good Catholic order? Nothing!
--------------------------------------------------- - What is wrong with lay people to tell a Catholic order they must accept their lay demands? Everything!
- What is wrong with lay people to tell a Catholic order they must have other outside priests come into their Mission order? Everything!
- What is wrong for lay people to appoint priests within that Catholic order around? Everything!
- What is wrong with lay people to deceive other Catholics saying they are the "victim" of the Catholic order's "demands" and "conditions" (by saying NO to the lay people's OWN demands) for trying to keep intact their Catholic order's identity and authority within their God given mission the Church gave them? Everything!
Hopefully are friends in the OLSC are starting to understated the point. What is from God no man shall put asunder!
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Post by Albert on May 26, 2018 20:18:01 GMT
How does the Resistance in England and Scotland deal with the temptation of lay control and in regards to the extra Priests that do offer Masses in UK, are they under condition to align themselves to OLMC? Hi, After speaking personally to Fr Ribas concerning this matter, he told me he didn't understand there to be a parish situation in the UK, he certainly did not understand that he was here in the UK under the authority of anyone. A close member of my family spoke to Fr Fuchs who said in our current situation there are no parishes. From our conversations it was obvious that neither of them understood that they were aligned to OLMC, if that is meant to mean they are under some sort of authority Hi, we've also talked to those priests over a couple of years and they agree with everything Fr Pfeiffer and Fr Hewko say, for example if you'll ask them they'll say dont go to the SSPX, dont go to the sedes, dont go to the insult Mass, keep following Mgr Lefevre etc. Plus it's obvious to everyone who theyre saying Mass for. The Williamson folks have Mass down the road at Earlsfield but they are not working with them. Who they are saying Mass for is the Fr Pfeiffer crowd. Everyone knows that. What they said to you depends what you asked them or how you made it sound. They may have been a bit wierded out by sudden random questions about parishes and authority or thought that you were trying to trap them into saying something.
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Post by Albert on May 26, 2018 20:24:58 GMT
Is a Priest at liberty to begin it's own particular Mission with the principles of the OLMC which is the True Faith but remain independent. Eg A Franciscan Mission or Dominican Mission etc? That would be great if only it would happen but there just are none. When they joined the Resistance people in England and Scotland begged Avrille to send a priest over once in a while, no reply, nothing, not even a no. I heard OLMC asked them to send a priest to help at the seminary and got the same reply.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2018 5:02:01 GMT
Is a Priest at liberty to begin it's own particular Mission with the principles of the OLMC which is the True Faith but remain independent. Eg A Franciscan Mission or Dominican Mission etc? He would have to support, work with, and point in the direction of the OLMC, for if he didn’t, he would be working against the only structure that continues the old SSPX’s work of teaching true, unaltered Catholic doctrine, and thus this priest would be against Our Lord (“ He that is not with me, is against me …”).
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rose
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Post by rose on May 27, 2018 12:44:34 GMT
Hi, After speaking personally to Fr Ribas concerning this matter, he told me he didn't understand there to be a parish situation in the UK, he certainly did not understand that he was here in the UK under the authority of anyone. A close member of my family spoke to Fr Fuchs who said in our current situation there are no parishes. From our conversations it was obvious that neither of them understood that they were aligned to OLMC, if that is meant to mean they are under some sort of authority Hi, we've also talked to those priests over a couple of years and they agree with everything Fr Pfeiffer and Fr Hewko say, for example if you'll ask them they'll say dont go to the SSPX, dont go to the sedes, dont go to the insult Mass, keep following Mgr Lefevre etc. Plus it's obvious to everyone who theyre saying Mass for. The Williamson folks have Mass down the road at Earlsfield but they are not working with them. Who they are saying Mass for is the Fr Pfeiffer crowd. Everyone knows that. What they said to you depends what you asked them or how you made it sound. They may have been a bit wierded out by sudden random questions about parishes and authority or thought that you were trying to trap them into saying something. Hi Albert, Yes thank goodness these good priests do seem to agree with each other on most things and we are so very grateful for all they do. For the record we asked the basic question about parishes and authority because of a personal family situation that is directly affected by this. It really wasn't 'sudden' or 'random', it had context. We were truly attempting to navigate the best way through a confusing situation for us, I believe they both understood that. I think the situation in the UK is a bit more complicated than it may appear. For instance some folk who may be considered members of the 'Fr Pfeiffer crowd' actually attend weekly Mass with Fr King. I know for a fact that Fr King considers himself to be akin to a parish priest for these souls.
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Post by therecusant on May 27, 2018 12:50:51 GMT
Is a Priest at liberty to begin it's own particular Mission with the principles of the OLMC which is the True Faith but remain independent. Eg A Franciscan Mission or Dominican Mission etc? Are we talking about in another place, a new place, a foreign country, somewhere where there wasn't yet any Resistance presence? If yes, if you're talking about elsewhere, then the answer is simple. Plenty of priests have, some of them still do. Look at Fr. Ruiz in Mexico. Or Fr. Cardozo in South America. Or Fr. Altamira in S. America back a few years ago (even though he hasn't been heard of lately, but still...) Or that Nigerian priest whose name now escapes me. Or Fr. Jacqmin before he went sede and discovered his own "eucharistic miracle" and all the rest of it. They are doing exactly what Fr. Pfeiffer and Fr. Hewko are doing. If on the other hand you're talking about a priest starting something "closer to home" then it ought to be obvious that standing up against the liberalisation of the SSPX and trying to rescue as many souls from it as possible, starting a new mission from scratch and so forth, is one thing. Whereas showing up at an already established Resistance chapel and telling them "Come with me instead!" is quite another thing. It is parasitic and is not really helping anyone. It doesn't really help spread the Resistance wider afield. It will only compete with what has already been established rather than complementing it. For a priest to do so without so much as a by your leave from the priest who started it is rather dishonest and not how a Catholic behaves. For him to continue in complete silence ad secrecy (as with Fr. Zendejas post 2014) is even less how a Catholic behaves. The Resistance has to be open, it has to be public. It has to be available to whoever wants to take part or take advantage of it, not just an elite inner-circle of those 'in the know.' The problem with your question, if you'll forgive my saying so, is that it seems to imply the lie put about by Mathinfo et al., namely that it is Fr. Pfeiffer and Fr. Hewko on one side, and on the other side every single other priest is with Bishop Williamson. That simply isn't true. The truth is that there are lots of priests who stood up over the past five or six years. Bishop Williamson was the natural focal point of unity and he abused that position to try his best to divide the priests and stop them working together. Even his own followers and supporters don't have any actual unity beyond a common personality hero-worship. They don't stand for the same things or teach the same things. That's what will win or lose us this fight: a priest on his own can only accomplish so much. Priests united in a common fight are far more powerful. Who, other than Fr. Pfeiffer, is doing anything right now to try and pull priests together? And yet that's what needs to be done most of all if the Resistance is to have a future. That and the formation of seminarians. The enemy knows it too - that's why, via a certain Bishop and his secret plots and schemes, they try constantly to tear things apart and set one priest against another. Look at Fr. Cardozo down in S. America. He started Resistance chapels back in early/mid-2012, earlier than practically anyone else, even Fr. Pfeiffer. He didn't ask anyone's permission, he just saw what it needed doing, so he did it. Now, imagine for one moment if some phoney-baloney Williamson-worshiping priest showed up one day unannounced and tried telling the people "Come with me! I can give you Mass more often than Fr. Cardozo!" never asked him if it was OK, and then proceeded to run his new, parasitic apostolate in complete secrecy... how do you think that would go down? Would Fr. Cardozo have a right to be concerned for the good of souls? Or would we all turn on him and tell him that he's being excessively authoritarian, that he thinks the whole world is his parish, that he has no jurisdiction, the faithful don't have to listen to him at all, what right has he, etc., etc...? As for Franciscans and Dominicans, I agree with what Albert said above. The chance would be a fine thing. They are only concerned with themselves. Avrillé has eleven or twelve priests and keeps them all saying Mass in one (1) location. They were begged to send someone, even just now and then, once a month, for example, or once every other month. I personally wrote to them back in the summer of 2014 and never even got an acknowledgement. I know others who asked and got no reply. In May 2015 I asked their superior in person and got told "No, we need all he priests here..." And then of course they wrote that declaration in summer 2015 saying that they're still on the side of the SSPX and don't want to take sides, they want to have a foot in each camp, and so on, so I'm not sure we'd want them now anyway. As for the Franciscans, their track record is even worse. So your question is an academic one. But I think, in theory, if they were to suddenly see sense and find their courage and wanted to join the fight, then surely as a matter of courtesy, if nothing else, they ought first of all to touch base with the priests who have been waging war without their help these past five or six years and not just barge in and take over someone else's work which has taken a few years of hard work to build up... Don't you agree?
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2018 12:54:07 GMT
Is a Priest at liberty to begin it's own particular Mission with the principles of the OLMC which is the True Faith but remain independent. Eg A Franciscan Mission or Dominican Mission etc? That would be great if only it would happen but there just are none. When they joined the Resistance people in England and Scotland begged Avrille to send a priest over once in a while, no reply, nothing, not even a no. I heard OLMC asked them to send a priest to help at the seminary and got the same reply. When they joined the Resistance people in England and Scotland begged Avrille to send a priest over once in a while, no reply, nothing, not even a no. I heard OLMC asked them to send a priest to help at the seminary and got the same reply.
But Avrille serves the sedevacantists with no problem! What combat for the church is that?
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2018 17:24:19 GMT
What the Church needs right now is not "independent priests". She needs priests who will carry on the work of the Archbishop. And the work of the Archbishop was priests organising themselves, working together, getting seminaries going to train a younger generation of priests, and so on. That's the future. That's what we should be supporting. Isn't that the truth! Contrary to the Williamson affair threatening priests to do other wise and remain factions with one another. Where is catholic in that?
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