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Post by MM on Jul 20, 2018 13:02:52 GMT
There is no lay control. It was started by Fr Pfeiffer. He is the one who has the final say. Any priests who are against him help the Bishop Williamson faction instead. This is a good point: “ Any priests who are against him help the Bishop Williamson faction instead.” Our Lord said: “ He that is not with me, is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.” If people/groups separate from the OLMC, which is the only organization which teaches true Catholic doctrine and continues the line of Archbishop Lefebvre, they weaken it and thus work against the fight for the Truth, the fight to guard the Deposit of Faith. This can also be applied to Fr. Raphel. His doctrine is good and he is against Bishop Williamson and his errors, but by working against the OLMC, he works against the organization that stands for the Truth and he doesn’t construct but breaks down, thus working against Our Lord. “ He that is not with me, is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.” So not true. Just because a priest chooses not to work with OLMC does not mean they work against olmc.
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Post by MM on Jul 20, 2018 13:04:42 GMT
How does the Resistance in England and Scotland deal with the temptation of lay control and in regards to the extra Priests that do offer Masses in UK, are they under condition to align themselves to OLMC? Hi, After speaking personally to Fr Ribas concerning this matter, he told me he didn't understand there to be a parish situation in the UK, he certainly did not understand that he was here in the UK under the authority of anyone. A close member of my family spoke to Fr Fuchs who said in our current situation there are no parishes. From our conversations it was obvious that neither of them understood that they were aligned to OLMC, if that is meant to mean they are under some sort of authority. With regards to Fr King who says regular Masses in the north of England, Wales and Scotland he doesn't consider himself aligned with OLMC either, he gives this statement in each newsletter "Father Brendan King is a Catholic Priest ordained by Archbishop Lefebvre in 1987 at Econe, Switzerland. No longer able in conscience to support Bishop Fellay’s betrayal of the Traditional cause and Archbishop Lefebvre’s legacy, he strives as an independent Priest and with the grace of God, to be faithful to tradition without compromise to Liberalism or Modernism, in the spirit of Archbishop Lefebvre." Hope this helps. Exactly. There are many good and holy independent priests who do their duty as best as they can who are not under OLMC. That does not mean they are against olmc.
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Post by Mm on Jul 20, 2018 13:08:38 GMT
How does the Resistance in England and Scotland deal with the temptation of lay control and in regards to the extra Priests that do offer Masses in UK, are they under condition to align themselves to OLMC? Thank you for the question. This topic is a perfect example of Catholic universality within the Four Marks of the Church: One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic.Catholic means Universal. Contrary to the facade and in fact fraud some in the OLSC now profess, the SSPX-mc/OLMC priests are first and foremost SSPX priests. Never left the SSPX order; never choose to leave the SSPX order, never promote to leave the SSPX order (unlike Bishop Williamson spinning duplicity and now the SAJM from bishops faure and Zendejas to gain numbers in their proud separate enterprise). These SSPX-mc/OLMC priests continue the work of the SSPX. One day, God willing in his mercy, if the present liberal SSPX superiors causing this chaos convert back to their Catholic ways (old-SSPX), all of the SSPX-mc/OLMC missions around the world will be a part of and whole of the total Archbishop Lefebvre as they are created and exist today; as has happened throughout the history of the Church. We are all baptized Catholics! These SSPX-mc/OLMC priests, as they have said many times, are still SSPX priests doing the missions from whence it was created and sent in mission by the will of God. Thus, there are many SSPX priests and SSPX priest friends who are in other countries who still help each other in the WHOLE of the Church spreading Christ's Kingdom. Take England and Ireland for example; Austria, Mexico, USA, Philippines, France, Spain... From Fr. King in the north of England/Scotland helping maintain the faith to those asking him; Fr. Bufe in the north of Ireland; Fr. Fuchs in Austria/England/ Sweden and many other places he travels bringing Christ to souls; Fr. Ribas too in Spain, and other countries he visits; Fr. Cadozo in South America, and other priests I do not keep track of in other countries. There is constant interchange and familiarity between all of these priests with apostolates and masses helping ALL catholic souls who call upon them. There are no proud lay groups dictating what and where. That is not Catholic! We all are happy with the priests He sends us. It shows any time some people have a personal beef with a priest (any priest) they clamor and make up other things to drag them in the proverbial mud; they drag the Church in the mud too. Error enters into their mind unfortunately by their unchecked passions, thus beginning to foster doctrinal and ecclesiastical errors making up things that do not exist. This is how heresy starts; first by the passions. This is why we at TheCatacombs.org chose to correct these wrong doings hoping all concerned will learn and focus on the Cross than their OWN or anyone's interests but of God's. How many times have you seen Fr. Pfeiffer trying to organize all these priests to come together...from conferences, BW's anniversary, Priests meetings, retreats, anything to continue the work of the Church and help each other spread the Faith? So please! Why is it we Catholics, especially those in tradition, are questioning all of this momentum and progress to preach and build missions around the world? Why are we talking about the novus ordo mass again? Why are so many disgruntled individuals so obsessed with themselves and not the mission of the Church? Why does selfishness prevail and not universality of God's interests? Has cognitive dissonance has set in? Some of the disgruntled can say all day long their false narrations, it doesn't change the facts. They only fight against God Himself. So there are no "lay groups" separate from the work or the universal Church. We all work in interchange the SAME as the Church blesses. Look at the wonders of St. Francis and St. Benedict working together and the blesses St. Francis de Sales... It has always been in the revolution of many to first draw a separation where there is none to make a wedge and isolation where there is none, to play the devils game of divide and conquer. Silly people, there is no division in God and what God had willed. If you do so, you fight against God! So if OLSC would stop parsing and complaining about themselves, there can be a fruitful environment God can brings His priests into. Until then, their stubborn blindness holds God's blessings away...that is right in front of them. So this "separatist" mentality is the false narration from the OLSC people. No, we are Catholic and fight for the Oneness of God and His Church. -- What caught my eye was this: "Never left the SSPX order; never choose to leave the SSPX order, never promote to leave the SSPX order" It doesn't matter that they chose to leave or not. Fact is, they were kicked out. They can't call themselves sspx-anything any longer, because they are not.
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Post by MM on Jul 20, 2018 13:17:47 GMT
Is a Priest at liberty to begin it's own particular Mission with the principles of the OLMC which is the True Faith but remain independent. Eg A Franciscan Mission or Dominican Mission etc? This is really a technical question NO priest or bishop can "begin" their own mission without the explicit permission from the Church. This was discussed by the fraud of Bishop Faure's SAJM enterprise here SAJM: An Approved Congregation or Illegally Erected?However every priest, who are helpers to the bishops (apostles in the Church), have a mission from Christ to go out to preach and baptize. So there is a practical mission to do this and organize in this terrible crisis we are all conflicted with. I condemn as the Church does this idea there needs to be all of these "lay structures" and loose priest organizations bishop Williamson promotes setting a selfish uncatholic view and tone because BW is too lazy and lacks faith as a Bishop of the Church. Have we digressed so much as a traditional Catholic people in so little time? What a punishment. Regarding your question "in the principles of the OLMC" was already addressed in the post previous. The "OLMC" are SSPX priests who never left their SSPX order maintain still their SSPX Statues and Constitutions like the Church has always done in other Professed Orders when there is a liberal split. For the rest of us, St. Ignatius instructs when in time of confusion, do not make changes. Stay the course until God provides otherwise. With OLSC making their personal problem with a singular priest into a false ecclesiastical narration is wrong and they need to stop that nonsense less they remove God who sent them. I can't believe I am agreeing with you in this one. "NO priest or bishop can "begin" their own mission without the explicit permission from the Church." This is true, also, of OLMC. Then I disagree. "The "OLMC" are SSPX priests who never left their SSPX order maintain still their SSPX Statues and Constitutions... " They were kicked out of the sspx. It doesnt matter if they left willingly or unwillingly. Fact is, they left. And I beg to differ that they maintain the statutes and constitutions of the sspx. Have you ever read the statutes and constitution? I have and OLMC does NOT follow them.
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Post by Mm on Jul 20, 2018 13:19:58 GMT
Hi, After speaking personally to Fr Ribas concerning this matter, he told me he didn't understand there to be a parish situation in the UK, he certainly did not understand that he was here in the UK under the authority of anyone. A close member of my family spoke to Fr Fuchs who said in our current situation there are no parishes. From our conversations it was obvious that neither of them understood that they were aligned to OLMC, if that is meant to mean they are under some sort of authority Hi, we've also talked to those priests over a couple of years and they agree with everything Fr Pfeiffer and Fr Hewko say, for example if you'll ask them they'll say dont go to the SSPX, dont go to the sedes, dont go to the insult Mass, keep following Mgr Lefevre etc. Plus it's obvious to everyone who theyre saying Mass for. The Williamson folks have Mass down the road at Earlsfield but they are not working with them. Who they are saying Mass for is the Fr Pfeiffer crowd. Everyone knows that. What they said to you depends what you asked them or how you made it sound. They may have been a bit wierded out by sudden random questions about parishes and authority or thought that you were trying to trap them into saying something. To be in agreement with someone does not make you under their authority.
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Post by MM on Jul 20, 2018 13:22:52 GMT
Is a Priest at liberty to begin it's own particular Mission with the principles of the OLMC which is the True Faith but remain independent. Eg A Franciscan Mission or Dominican Mission etc? He would have to support, work with, and point in the direction of the OLMC, for if he didn’t, he would be working against the only structure that continues the old SSPX’s work of teaching true, unaltered Catholic doctrine, and thus this priest would be against Our Lord (“ He that is not with me, is against me …”). No way. Asinine logic. OLMC does not equal the Catholic Faith.
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Post by MM on Jul 20, 2018 13:26:38 GMT
Hi, we've also talked to those priests over a couple of years and they agree with everything Fr Pfeiffer and Fr Hewko say, for example if you'll ask them they'll say dont go to the SSPX, dont go to the sedes, dont go to the insult Mass, keep following Mgr Lefevre etc. Plus it's obvious to everyone who theyre saying Mass for. The Williamson folks have Mass down the road at Earlsfield but they are not working with them. Who they are saying Mass for is the Fr Pfeiffer crowd. Everyone knows that. What they said to you depends what you asked them or how you made it sound. They may have been a bit wierded out by sudden random questions about parishes and authority or thought that you were trying to trap them into saying something. Hi Albert, Yes thank goodness these good priests do seem to agree with each other on most things and we are so very grateful for all they do. For the record we asked the basic question about parishes and authority because of a personal family situation that is directly affected by this. It really wasn't 'sudden' or 'random', it had context. We were truly attempting to navigate the best way through a confusing situation for us, I believe they both understood that. I think the situation in the UK is a bit more complicated than it may appear. For instance some folk who may be considered members of the 'Fr Pfeiffer crowd' actually attend weekly Mass with Fr King. I know for a fact that Fr King considers himself to be akin to a parish priest for these souls. --- "some folk who may be considered members of the 'Fr Pfeiffer crowd' actually attend weekly Mass with Fr King. I know for a fact that Fr King considers himself to be akin to a parish priest for these souls." I think this happens more than anyone would care to admit. I know, for a fact, many who attend fr. Pfeiffer et al masses when they come, also attend b. Williamson et al, and even sspx masses.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 13:27:07 GMT
I have a question: Does the priest who rules over a mission have the right to the property (e.g., vestments, altar, missals, building, etc.) of that mission once the mission recognizes the authority of that priest over it? It depends. If he is only a visiting priest, then no. If he is, in effect, the mission pastor and the mission calls him this, then yes. When our group was running the Our Lady of Good Success Mission in Toronto, we accepted Fr. Pfeiffer as the Mission pastor, but we rejected the idea that he owned the Mission property. The Mission property belonged to the Mission Council. The ownership of the Mission property between the Mission Council and Fr. Pfeiffer interestingly was not discussed in any detail, or at least I don't recall it being discussed.
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Post by MM on Jul 20, 2018 13:34:34 GMT
Perhaps an understanding what the Laity is and where in the Church the Laity have participation can be helpful to this situation. OLSC calls themselves a Catholic community established by themselves. Can they do this or do they need Ecclesiastical permission and guidance from the Church? Excerpts from www.newadvent.org/cathen/08748a.htm
Can a priest decide to set up his own seminary or does he need Ecclesiastical permission and guidance from the Church?
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Post by MM on Jul 20, 2018 13:45:14 GMT
It depends. If he is only a visiting priest, then no. If he is, in effect, the mission pastor and the mission calls him this, then yes. When our group was running the Our Lady of Good Success Mission in Toronto, we accepted Fr. Pfeiffer as the Mission pastor, but we rejected the idea that he owned the Mission property. The Mission property belonged to the Mission Council. The ownership of the Mission property between the Mission Council and Fr. Pfeiffer interestingly was not discussed in any detail, or at least I don't recall it being discussed. Then either: A. you rejected him as your pastor and you received him as a visiting priest, or B. A board ruled a priest.
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Post by Admin on Jul 20, 2018 13:48:26 GMT
To the guest, MM:
It is clear you are demonstrating a prior issue with the SSPX-MC priests of OLMC.
Your questions and/or statements can (if someone wishes to be so kind) be answered, but only if you allow time and opportinity for someone to do so. Firing off statement after statement and question after question is not productive.
And more to the point, most of your personal issues about OLMC have long been answered and established here and elsewhere. But it would appear you do not necessarily require an answer to your questions (proving by the rapidity with which you/Nightowl are posting) but are rather using The Catacombs as a platform to voice your discontent with the priests of OLMC. Take a break.
Now while you are more than entitled to your opinion, you offer no proof of your to back up your opinion. Therefore it remains nothing but an opinion. But tread carefully here, my friend. Wild accusations with nothing to back them up are taken seriously by the moderator team of this forum. We do ask for respectful and supported statements from our members and guests.
God bless,
Admin
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 13:55:31 GMT
When our group was running the Our Lady of Good Success Mission in Toronto, we accepted Fr. Pfeiffer as the Mission pastor, but we rejected the idea that he owned the Mission property. The Mission property belonged to the Mission Council. The ownership of the Mission property between the Mission Council and Fr. Pfeiffer interestingly was not discussed in any detail, or at least I don't recall it being discussed. Then either: A. you rejected him as your pastor and you received him as a visiting priest, or B. A board ruled a priest. Perhaps we need to first define the term "Mission Pastor". Is there a canonical definition of "Mission Pastor" that we can start from?
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Post by MM on Jul 20, 2018 14:02:17 GMT
To the guest, MM:
It is clear you are demonstrating a prior issue with the SSPX-MC priests of OLMC.
Your questions and/or statements can (if someone wishes to be so kind) be answered, but only if you allow time and opportinity for someone to do so. Firing off statement after statement and question after question is not productive.
And more to the point, most of your personal issues about OLMC have long been answered and established here and elsewhere. But it would appear you do not necessarily require an answer to your questions (proving by the rapidity with which you/Nightowl are posting) but are rather using The Catacombs as a platform to voice your discontent with the priests of OLMC. Take a break.
Now while you are more than entitled to your opinion, you offer no proof of your to back up your opinion. Therefore it remains nothing but an opinion. But tread carefully here, my friend. Wild accusations with nothing to back them up are taken seriously by the moderator team of this forum. We do ask for respectful and supported statements from our members and guests.
God bless,
Admin
You are right. I will ask no more questions. Btw, I am not nightowl. Different people. It's o.k. neither of us will come here again. You all have rose colored glasses on when it comes to the OLMC fathers. "We would live to regret the day we got involved with Father Pfeiffer" -- Fr Chazal. A truer statement could not be said.
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Post by MM on Jul 20, 2018 14:04:28 GMT
Then either: A. you rejected him as your pastor and you received him as a visiting priest, or B. A board ruled a priest. Perhaps we need to first define the term "Mission Pastor". Is there a canonical definition of "Mission Pastor" that we can start from? Sorry, admin doesn't want me here. You seem to be the only person without rose colored glasses.
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Post by MM on Jul 20, 2018 14:17:38 GMT
"Perhaps there are some guests that are unaware that it is possible for the admin and the moderators to determine that multiple guests are coming from the same IP address.
It would seem that this is the case in the last twenty-four to forty-eight hours, that we have had what appear to be multiple guests on The Catacombs but in reality, they are one and the same person, or at least sharing the same computer.
We would ask in all politeness that each guest stick to a single guest name when they make comments. This allows a timely response to each guest post, if it is warranted. It would be silly to have to ban an IP address but it is built into most forum software platforms to be able to do so.
God bless you all, Admin"
Are you saying every member here has a unique IP address and no two come from the same location? I would find that hard to believe. Perhaps it would be better to repair the problem across the board than single out one.
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