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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2018 16:20:39 GMT
Moran is in Ohio with a family, supported by OLMC donations. What is your evidence that some of the donations to OLMC are going to Moran?
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Post by Anon2 on Jul 18, 2018 18:35:57 GMT
Though with one dimension and difficult to understand for the west roman rite, the Ukraine rite accepts married priests which Bishop Ambrose being a part of [/quote]
I thought that Bishops of the Eastern Rites cannot be married. Since Bishop Ambrose is not married, and, as you also say, that he is a valid bishop, then what is the problem with Catholics of the Roman Rite using his services?
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Post by JMJ on Jul 19, 2018 2:36:45 GMT
To macabees: Not innocent charity when fr. Pfeiffer specifically told the Faithful he would have nothing more to do with Moran.
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Post by JMJ on Jul 19, 2018 2:39:57 GMT
To EM: Ask Fr. Pfeiffer if he or any one who has access to OLMC funds has given any money or financial assistance of any kind (pay electric bills, etc) to Moran since Fr. Pfeiffer told the Faithful he cut ties with Moran.
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Post by JMJ on Jul 19, 2018 2:42:42 GMT
To anon: You have a good point.
If Moran is valid, which fr. Pfeiffer adamantly believes Moran is, then why does Fr. Pfeiffer keep bugging +Williamson?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2018 5:04:05 GMT
jmj, please read my previous posts. Catholic charity is not from a box or selective. The story of the good Samaritan our Lord taught would be appropriate to help you understand charity has no bounds regardless of circumstances. If I may add, it was you who had made an allegation without anything to support it. Please re-consider what your intention is: to give glory to God through others kindness, or to make up a narration only to slander your neighbor.
To your last question.
What is being discussed is the service of the Church for clerical orders. It matters none if the person of BW is in mortal sin. It matter none what the person of BW is. It is an objective service of the Church needing emergency Holy oils and elevation of Holy orders. There are one of two contexts to seek service from a bishop: either in the normal means giving every opportunity, and if shut, to go to the mode of state of emergency so as to continue the mission of the Church. As in a similar context if you have to go out of your comfort zone and receive confession from another priest or bishop who is in defect of the Church when you are dying. This is more than just a catechism lesson. This crisis is at the bishops feet. Not on any priest. So the narrations other proffer to slam catholic priests who are trying to do the will of the Church and bishops who work against that mission is a wrong and unjust statement.
Forget not the evolution of BW and his errors. As a catholic one tries his best as ABL did to the modernists asking for the service of the Church even though they were apostates and wanted him to apostate. It matters none. It is the holy orders that is needed which the faux pas bishops not only stated they will "smash" the sspx-mc priests, they are actively doing so by rejecting the objective service of the Church. So who suffers?
So I would recommend to turn your attention on the negligent bishops of the Church who are responsible for this crisis than on the priests, fallible as they are, trying to do [everything] because no other priest and bishop will.
I remind others too, the normal means is through our Diocesan bishop. Not through these other bishops who say they were consecrated for the state of necessity but will not provide that necessity. Hypocritical or traitorous?
So our natural eyes need to go upward to understand what is before us. It is about the rights of God and not the rights of man and its ensuing slavery they entrap.
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Post by Jmj on Jul 19, 2018 5:17:28 GMT
To macabees: You are right, that all charity is good, but not if your charity in on the backs of benefactors; benefactors you told you would have no further dealing with a certain person yet you still give him money... And, if fr. Pfeiffer believes Moran to be a legitimate bishop, why doesn't he get the oils, etc, from him and stop bugging williamson?
[ Moderator: jmj it appears you are more angry than querying. It has already been answered. As a guest, we ask you to follow our simple rules you agreed to by posting as a guest. Thank you. ]
1. In all posts, there will only be allowed a prevailing spirit of charity. Persistent lack of charity in either posts or responding to the posts of others will result in being banned.
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Post by JMJ on Jul 19, 2018 5:20:44 GMT
Wait. "So I would recommend to turn your attention on the negligent bishops of the Church who are responsible for this crisis than on the priests, fallible as they are, trying to do [everything] because no other priest and bishop will."
Are you saying there is not one other priest or bishop in the world trying to be a good priest/bishop?
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Post by Anon2 on Jul 19, 2018 5:48:44 GMT
To anon: You have a good point. If Moran is valid, which fr. Pfeiffer adamantly believes Moran is, then why does Fr. Pfeiffer keep bugging +Williamson? I am not Fr Pfeiffer so I cannot answer for him. Both the SSPX and the Resistance pledge undying loyalty to Archbishop Lefebvre. Look where we are now. I would advise Fr Pfeiffer to bite the bullet and take in Bishop Ambrose. BUT I AM A LAYMAN WITH NO KNOWLEDGE OF SACRAMENTAL THEOLOGY, SO MY ADVICE MAY WELL BE WORTHLESS!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2018 5:51:00 GMT
This topic is about Bishop Williamson rejecting to serve the Church regardless of priest X or faithful named Y or Z who have been asking of him. He is 6 years adamant and obstinate not to give service. The sin of Bishop Williamson not to serve the Church is the SAME sin as peter denying Christ. Not just three times but many.
How is that so?
Jesus Christ said to the superiors of Bishop Williamson, the Catholic Church: " I have sent you...He that heareth you, heareth me; and he that despiseth you, despiseth me; and he that despiseth me, despiseth him that sent me." Bishop Williamson refuses to listen to the Church; he is despising Her rights over him; he denies the Church to give Her graces of Redemption to others; thus, he denies Him who sent the Church - Christ and His Father.
This bickering to protect the sensibility of a man called Bishop Williamson or others wanting to protect the sensibilities of the man called Bishop Fellay over the rights of God is understandable knowing the world markets a personal religion. If anyone goes against that sensibility, you are crucified.
Archbishop Lefebvre in 1988 was in the SAME situation we are in today 30 years later. The only difference, the very bishops he consecrated are acting like the modernists denying Christ. Archbishop Lefebvre said to Cardinal Ratzinger "You are working to de-Christianize society, the human person and the Church, and we are working to Christianize them." (Marcel Lefebvre, Bp. Tissier de Mallerais, p. 548) I would believe he would say the SAME to them!
Added too, ABL was consecrating bishops knowing he was placing before us what we are taking about now. Needing to make a choice outside the 'normal' means choosing a bishop who is closer to the nature of the Church. The sspx does not have a monopoly on the faith or Church. They are stewards needing to serve. Seems like they have been preaching from the pulpit more for their rights than the rights of God making others idolize them as the cat's meow. Not so. Christ is the King whom we should give our attention too.
Why are we talking about the negligence of these bishops, ironically enough, their 30 year anniversary just past days ago which convicts them of their sin following the new church and not hanging on to the faith.
More over, this crisis isn't just in our own little pocket of the world, it is everywhere in the Church: in east Bombay, Malaysia, Lebanon, on the north pole...
I find it interesting the hubris of Catholics to tell God what he must do, and do for them. No! God is the Head of His Church and will purify it as he needs. People constantly chanting that we must accept the flagrance of bishop A or B is sickening to a Church that is Holy.
Lets take an important parable of our Lord; the Marriage feast. He gave us an understanding of this hubris placing their own wants first when Gad was calling them. They refused God; God refused them. So he sent his servants into the byways, streets, parks, idle areas to call others to put on a white garment (sanctifying grace). Then many came and supped with the King.
This is so akin today. Getting past the hubris slander, isn't it interesting that right in front of everyone, and everyone in distraction loving themselves, God is now using Kentucky, the pfeiffer house who is world know to go out into the byways and streets, parks and idle areas to bring others to the marriage feast. They are renowned for their hospitality and charity. And yet all's we hear is how come they gave bread to a stranger; why they always reach out to novus ordo priests and challenged priests, why do they give retreats; why do they live in want only to fill their neighbor with more than they have? Not that they are saints by the worlds standards, they are only responding to the graces that are given to them.
Those that live in glass houses should not throw stones (John 8).
Signs of the times...
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Post by Jmj on Jul 19, 2018 5:55:06 GMT
What I read in the initial post was complaint that Williamson did not give oils, etc, to fr. Pfeiffer and fr. Hewko, again.
To which I answer: definition of insanity? Do the same thing over and over again, expecting to get different results.
If Pfeiffer believes he has a legitimate bishop, why not use him?
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Post by Jmj on Jul 19, 2018 5:57:24 GMT
To anon: I agree. Not that I like Moran, or believe him to be legitimate, but fr. Pfeiffer does.
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Post by Jmj on Jul 19, 2018 6:02:14 GMT
Macabees: You didnt answer my question:
"So I would recommend to turn your attention on the negligent bishops of the Church who are responsible for this crisis than on the priests, fallible as they are, trying to do [everything] because no other priest and bishop will."
Are you saying there is not one other priest or bishop in the world trying to be a good priest/bishop?
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Post by JMJ on Jul 19, 2018 6:05:37 GMT
To macabees: You are right, that all charity is good, but not if your charity in on the backs of benefactors; benefactors you told you would have no further dealing with a certain person yet you still give him money... And, if fr. Pfeiffer believes Moran to be a legitimate bishop, why doesn't he get the oils, etc, from him and stop bugging williamson?
[ Moderator: jmj it appears you are more angry than querying. It has already been answered to you. As a guest, we ask you to follow our simple rules you agreed to by posting as a guest. Thank you. ]
1. In all posts, there will only be allowed a prevailing spirit of charity. Persistent lack of charity in either posts or responding to the posts of others will result in being banned. To moderator: I have no anger at all. Nor am I bickering, only asking legitimate questions. If my words come out harshly it is because of my age and all my Church has put me through in my years.
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Post by JMJ on Jul 19, 2018 6:12:26 GMT
It's o.k. not to answer, macabees. There is no answer as to why fr. Pfeiffer doesn't stop bothering williamson and utilize moran.
Furthermore, this idea that the OLMC priests are all the legitimate priests left in the world is a fallacy.
As to banning me, moderator. Its o.k. I will ban myself. You won't hear from me again.
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