Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2018 6:14:51 GMT
Macabees: You didnt answer my question: "So I would recommend to turn your attention on the negligent bishops of the Church who are responsible for this crisis than on the priests, fallible as they are, trying to do [everything] because no other priest and bishop will." Are you saying there is not one other priest or bishop in the world trying to be a good priest/bishop?
jmj, only God is good. This is about the faith not about personalities. Not only have I answered these questions, I had delineated them in prior posts. It is about the nature of the Church not your or my personal opinion what we think about person XYZ. Your avoidance of this topic only to run a bias is a bantering in a disguise to bait a different narration without any sincerity to the whole.
I see a moderator gave you a warning above. Please provide your statements with more consideration than to have an unproductive chatter.
|
|
|
Post by Anon2 on Jul 19, 2018 6:23:33 GMT
JMJ
Even if Fr Pfeiffer said he would not be charitable towards Bishop Ambrose but has now changed his mind I do not see a problem. I am with the SSPX but I am opposed to the direction Bishop Fellay has taken it to. I do not see any problem with Fr Pfeiffer associating with Bishop Ambrose. If the latter is in need of material assistance then let him have it. How many Catholics in the New Church have not had their donations go towards paying for the misdeeds of the clergy? That's not the case here.
|
|
|
Post by Nightowl on Jul 19, 2018 7:22:47 GMT
Pfeiffer told the Faithful he cut off Moran and would ha e nothing more to do with him. If fr. Pfeiffer brings Moran in, I am done.
[ Moderator note: The Official statement from OLMC was... ]
November 7th, 2015
Dear faithful,
After further investigation, the Seminary of Our Lady of Mount Carmel in Boston, Kentucky, has decided not to associate with Archbishop Ambrose Moran.
Please keep our nine seminarians and brothers in your prayers and we thank all who are praying for our apostolate.
In Christ the King and the Immaculate Heart of Mary,
Father Joseph Pfeiffer
Father David Hewko
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2018 8:44:24 GMT
Let me count the ways... There is always a room hosting allegations and misconstrues. There is a room for idle talk. There is a room for self-portraits. But where is there room for Christ? Even St. Paul had to ask that question in Athens seeing in the Pantheon there was a 'no named God'. So there he took the opportunity to preach Jesus Christ and Him Crucified.
If I had a soup box in 2018, I would make my plea to preach about the same 'no name God'. Because it seems He is always left out of Catholic thought where the crisis lies in men's minds who only want to favor personal thought.
With the OP at hand, whatever others may think of one bishop or another means nothing to me. I can care less. What concerns me is what does the suffering Church have to say and what are Her needs to save souls. Are the bishops providing them? That is all we hear of late from them is political discourse; my rights. Since the neo-sspx decided in the 2012 General Chapter to remove Doctrine as the premise and seek politics and practical things instead, it is easy to see they hold a protestant view of religion. What is good for me is good for me.
Christ is good on the cross and I am good in my new car. It is all relative, so we hear.
Is the Church only political? That is what the people wanted from Christ -- a political Christ. A Christ of good bread and His Church to be a circus. The seeking and enticement of the neo-sspx is no different making the same chant.
I hear of a lot of man-opinion but not anything of the rights of God-opinion. I hear a lot what some will do to put their foot down, but I ask by what reason? More rights? Why all this judge-jury-executioner mentality stuff? To ask what is the nature of the Church and are we conforming to it are fair questions getting out of the box of neo-tradition oppressing us to look at it from the view of the Church and not man's pulpit. Why do these errant bishops control the narration seeking bias in timid hearts? Are we lacking that much conviction in Christ causing a larger murmur as was in the desert with Moses? Was God happy with them? Wasn't there a lesson God was trying to teach them? What about us?
Are we too independent or just operate on other peoples slogans? Ad hominem are empty baskets when there is no fruit in it but only weaved with its own incredulity. It surprises me how much people cave in to intimidation of others without an effort of critical thinking. Imagine all that energy wasted on unproductive chatter when it can be harvested for souls in the vineyard. We are just not critical of ourselves. Why?
|
|
|
Post by Nightowl on Jul 19, 2018 12:12:56 GMT
Macabees: It amazes me how one person can talk so much and say so little. Moderator: I noticed you changed your comment to jmj. You originally threatened to ban him if he didnt cease, now the threat is gone. Interesting. I can see jmj had the right idea...
[ Moderator: There is no change but his lack of charity and free choice to walk elsewhere as he did to place his vile. You probably are not aware there are three pages to this thread. Please see page two where the comments are the same. You are also welcome to comment with something productive instead of a trail of conflated remarks. The conversation will be more edifying than hyperbole the night brings in. ]
|
|
|
Post by Nightowl on Jul 19, 2018 12:19:51 GMT
Pfeiffer told the Faithful he cut off Moran and would ha e nothing more to do with him. If fr. Pfeiffer brings Moran in, I am done.
[ Moderator note: The Official statement from OLMC was... ]
November 7th, 2015
Dear faithful,
After further investigation, the Seminary of Our Lady of Mount Carmel in Boston, Kentucky, has decided not to associate with Archbishop Ambrose Moran.
Please keep our nine seminarians and brothers in your prayers and we thank all who are praying for our apostolate.
In Christ the King and the Immaculate Heart of Mary,
Father Joseph Pfeiffer
Father David Hewko
Fr. Pfeiffer said a lot more than that in his sermon in which he said he cut off Moran will have nothing more to do with him. Find THAT quote.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2018 14:22:59 GMT
Pfeiffer told the Faithful he cut off Moran and would ha e nothing more to do with him. If fr. Pfeiffer brings Moran in, I am done.
[ Moderator note: The Official statement from OLMC was... ]
November 7th, 2015
Dear faithful,
After further investigation, the Seminary of Our Lady of Mount Carmel in Boston, Kentucky, has decided not to associate with Archbishop Ambrose Moran.
Please keep our nine seminarians and brothers in your prayers and we thank all who are praying for our apostolate.
In Christ the King and the Immaculate Heart of Mary,
Father Joseph Pfeiffer
Father David Hewko
Fr. Pfeiffer said a lot more than that in his sermon in which he said he cut off Moran will have nothing more to do with him. Find THAT quote. nightowl, it is hoped you will be able to spend some time reading through this thread seeing the crisis is a lot bigger than a narrow perception or selective personal views how the Catholic Church should be run. I believe that job is already filled by a mighty God and there is no other vacancy to provide an advisory role to Him.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2018 14:40:48 GMT
To EM: Ask Fr. Pfeiffer if he or any one who has access to OLMC funds has given any money or financial assistance of any kind (pay electric bills, etc) to Moran since Fr. Pfeiffer told the Faithful he cut ties with Moran. JMJ wrote: "Moran is in Ohio with a family, supported by OLMC donations."I asked you, JMJ, to provide the evidence and then you throw it back at me to ask Fr. Pfeiffer??? No. You made a positive statement, so it is you that must defend it by evidence. Otherwise, keep quiet.
|
|
|
Post by Nightowl on Jul 19, 2018 15:28:19 GMT
Fr. Pfeiffer said a lot more than that in his sermon in which he said he cut off Moran will have nothing more to do with him. Find THAT quote. nightowl, it is hoped you will be able to spend some time reading through this thread seeing the crisis is a lot bigger than a narrow perception or selective personal views how the Catholic Church should be run. I believe that job is already filled by a mighty God and there is no other vacancy to provide an advisory role to Him.
No idea what you are talking about. Fr. Pfeiffer was very clear in a sermon in which he said he cut off Moran and will have nothing more to do with him. This he said to HIS faithful (and the world, as he put the sermon on youtube). It cannot be disputed. But fr. Pfeiffer needs to stop bugging Williamson for things he needs and stop attacking him. What b. Williamson does or does not do is on HIS soul. He will reap the rewards or suffer the consequences of his actions or lack thereof.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2018 15:46:19 GMT
nightowl, it is hoped you will be able to spend some time reading through this thread seeing the crisis is a lot bigger than a narrow perception or selective personal views how the Catholic Church should be run. I believe that job is already filled by a mighty God and there is no other vacancy to provide an advisory role to Him.
No idea what you are talking about. Fr. Pfeiffer was very clear in a sermon in which he said he cut off Moran and will have nothing more to do with him. This he said to HIS faithful (and the world, as he put the sermon on youtube). It cannot be disputed. But fr. Pfeiffer needs to stop bugging Williamson for things he needs and stop attacking him. What b. Williamson does or does not do is on HIS soul. He will reap the rewards or suffer the consequences of his actions or lack thereof. Then provide for your statements than leaving loose words for the birds to eat. Giving the original context is better than telling us how you perceive it. Wouldn't you think?
And you condemn us too for being patient giving every effort to BW as like Archbishop Lefebvre did with the other defector modernists...where he said in the end of patience and charity "... perhaps I have gone too far." Now we can move on where providence leads us.
No one can say we did not try. And we are blamed for this?
By what spirit does this badgering come from?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2018 16:17:51 GMT
nightowl, it is hoped you will be able to spend some time reading through this thread seeing the crisis is a lot bigger than a narrow perception or selective personal views how the Catholic Church should be run. I believe that job is already filled by a mighty God and there is no other vacancy to provide an advisory role to Him.
No idea what you are talking about. Fr. Pfeiffer was very clear in a sermon in which he said he cut off Moran and will have nothing more to do with him. This he said to HIS faithful (and the world, as he put the sermon on youtube). It cannot be disputed. But fr. Pfeiffer needs to stop bugging Williamson for things he needs and stop attacking him. What b. Williamson does or does not do is on HIS soul. He will reap the rewards or suffer the consequences of his actions or lack thereof. It's not about Fr. Pfeiffer attacking Bishop Williamson in his person, if this is what you are stating. It's about Fr. Pfeiffer continuing to attack Bishop Williamson's errors so long as Bishop Williamson does not retract them. His Excellency has done grave harm to the Resistance by his errors.
|
|
|
Post by Nightowl on Jul 19, 2018 16:20:45 GMT
No idea what you are talking about. Fr. Pfeiffer was very clear in a sermon in which he said he cut off Moran and will have nothing more to do with him. This he said to HIS faithful (and the world, as he put the sermon on youtube). It cannot be disputed. But fr. Pfeiffer needs to stop bugging Williamson for things he needs and stop attacking him. What b. Williamson does or does not do is on HIS soul. He will reap the rewards or suffer the consequences of his actions or lack thereof. Then provide for your statements than leaving loose words for the birds to eat. Giving the original context is better than telling us how you perceive it. Wouldn't you think?
And you condemn us too for being patient giving every effort to BW as like Archbishop Lefebvre did with the other defector modernists...where he said in the end of patience and charity "... perhaps I have gone too far." Now we can move on where providence leads us.
No one can say we did not try. And we are blamed for this?
By what spirit does this badgering come from?
"Condemn us?" I have no idea who you are, nor would I presume to have the authority to condemn you. Yes, fr. Pfeiffer is to blame for continuing to try with B. Williamson when b. Williamson has made himself perfectly clear. Fr. Pfeiffer has made it abundantly clear that he considers Moran to be of legitimate lineage. Why not just utilize Moran and be done with williamson? Seems to me the badgering is coming from this direction.
|
|
|
Post by Nightowl on Jul 19, 2018 16:30:32 GMT
No idea what you are talking about. Fr. Pfeiffer was very clear in a sermon in which he said he cut off Moran and will have nothing more to do with him. This he said to HIS faithful (and the world, as he put the sermon on youtube). It cannot be disputed. But fr. Pfeiffer needs to stop bugging Williamson for things he needs and stop attacking him. What b. Williamson does or does not do is on HIS soul. He will reap the rewards or suffer the consequences of his actions or lack thereof. It's not about Fr. Pfeiffer attacking Bishop Williamson in his person, if this is what you are stating. It's about Fr. Pfeiffer continuing to attack Bishop Williamson's errors so long as Bishop Williamson does not retract them. His Excellency has done grave harm to the Resistance by his errors. No, it is not what I am stating. There is no need for fr. Pfeiffer to continue to attack Williamson in any way. Fr. Pfeiffer asked for assistance from a bishop who said no. Time to move on. If b. Williamson is negligent in his duties as a bishop, that is a matter for God to judge, not any human. There are plenty of other bishops. Fr. Pfeiffer adamantly says Moran is legitimate. Why not use him and leave Williamson to his own conscience?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2018 16:39:34 GMT
It's not about Fr. Pfeiffer attacking Bishop Williamson in his person, if this is what you are stating. It's about Fr. Pfeiffer continuing to attack Bishop Williamson's errors so long as Bishop Williamson does not retract them. His Excellency has done grave harm to the Resistance by his errors. No, it is not what I am stating. There is no need for fr. Pfeiffer to continue to attack Williamson in any way. Fr. Pfeiffer asked for assistance from a bishop who said no. Time to move on. If b. Williamson is negligent in his duties as a bishop, that is a matter for God to judge, not any human. There are plenty of other bishops. Fr. Pfeiffer adamantly says Moran is legitimate. Why not use him and leave Williamson to his own conscience? Bishop Williamson continues to influence people, new and old. So long as he does, he needs to be censured for his errors and people need to be clear on where he stands. And if no one speaks out, he will think he is right. I agree, though, that only God can judge his soul.
|
|
|
Post by Nightowl on Jul 19, 2018 16:51:59 GMT
No, it is not what I am stating. There is no need for fr. Pfeiffer to continue to attack Williamson in any way. Fr. Pfeiffer asked for assistance from a bishop who said no. Time to move on. If b. Williamson is negligent in his duties as a bishop, that is a matter for God to judge, not any human. There are plenty of other bishops. Fr. Pfeiffer adamantly says Moran is legitimate. Why not use him and leave Williamson to his own conscience? Bishop Williamson continues to influence people, new and old. So long as he does, he needs to be censured for his errors and people need to be clear on where he stands. And if no one speaks out, he will think he is right. I agree, though, that only God can judge his soul. There are MANY bishops who continue to influence people, yet are they censured by OLMC for their errors? b. Williamson has made his position clear to olmc priests time and time again. Leave b. Williamson to his own devices and conscience. Intelligent laity will understand where he stands and make their position clear with their checkbooks. Fr. Pfeiffer adamantly says Moran is legitimate. Why not use him? You didn't answer that question for previous times I asked...
|
|