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Post by John on Mar 23, 2018 18:15:40 GMT
Bishop Williamson : "It's only by the grace of the Catholic Church, it's only by the grace of Our Lord Jesus Christ, coming from and through the Catholic Church that anybody can be saved."
His Excellency gave this sermon a week ago.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2018 19:16:26 GMT
Thanks john, you have added another duplicit statement of Bishop Williamson. On July 2016 he stated there is true worship and the truth of God in the Anglican religion, thus salvation can be attained in the Anglican religion too. He never retracted from those statements nor those of telling people to both go to, and stay, in the novus ordo. cor-mariae.com/index.php?threads/quotes-of-bp-williamson-supporting-the-new-religion-and-conciliarism.4457/Quite contradictive isn't it? Only an ecumenist mind says such things. Do you think God approves? Do you approve? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2018 20:05:04 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2018 0:08:35 GMT
It’s the error mixed with truth that loses souls every time. This was maybe one of the biggest problems with Vatican II - error and heresy mixed with much truth. The devil can’t sow confusion if he came at Catholiic souls with pure heresy...it has to be a blend. We see this over and over with all the heresies down the centuries. Same problem with the bishops of the false resistance. But theby have - with their own words, no interpretation - REPEAT error. Either directly or by their silence in the face of Bishop W’s errors. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2018 15:51:01 GMT
Bp. Williamson-
"Our Lord said seek and you shall find; knock and it will be open to you. If you look for the truth, and you look for the true worship of God, you may find some of it in an Anglican Church. But you start talking to the minister, probably his principles are most likely are not completely true.” (Bishop Richard Williamson: 'The Existence of God: The Pre-requisite for all Politics', July 2016, @1:19:09,
I agree, it's frustrating not having a Catholic bishop speak straight since Archbishop Lefebvre. Instead of his followers coming to terms with it, they deleted the video trying to hide what he said. Doesn't matter, the bishop keeps repeating each week his ecumenism . Heck, will they delete his eleison comments too? Why not just put a sock in his mouth? How about having the charity and point out what he says is against the church and convert him back to a lion as we are trying to do? The more they hide his errors, the problem gets bigger.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2018 16:15:35 GMT
How does the false resistance grow closer to God in the Unitive way St. John of the Cross speaks of when they are diverse with trad-ecumenism? When does the one God become raised in their mind so not to mock and shame Him with duplicit statements? Why is the denominator and object always on the bishop and not on God? Is that the point, to make another religion of man?
Bishop Williamson is another revolution like Bishop Fellay is.
Seems these catholics put their rule of faith on the bishop instead of the faith itself.
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Post by Scarlet Pimpernel on Mar 24, 2018 18:51:11 GMT
We are rich in blessings to have preachers provided by God that have the guts and fortitude now needed to do what they were trained to do in the SSPX of Archbishop Lefebvre, which was defend against errors and preach the true faith! They took Oath Against Modernism like the other SSPX priests and the Bishops, but only the priests of the true resistance live up to it by publicly preaching against modernism and informing the faithful of the deceits of conciliar Rome and the conciliar SSPX who are working together as wolves to deceive the people as planned in Vat. II. However honest men know " it is better to obey God rather than men" - Acts 5:29 Bishop Williamson is Playing Mind Games in his EC's False teachings of Bishop Fellay & Bishop WilliamsonBishop Williamsons Heresies Part 1 |
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Post by John on Mar 24, 2018 19:09:42 GMT
Bishop Williamson didn't say that souls can be saved in the Anglican religion. You interpret his statement as you like. Here is what I read in a Catholic catechism about the Anglican religion (publish before Vatican II) :
"It's true that the Anglican religion contains some points which don't contradict reason or the teaching of the Catholic Church, but if we look at all its principles, we see that many are false."
Does that mean that this catechism is for ecumenism ? Certainly not !
If you compare the statement of Bishop Williamson about Anglicanism with what the catechism says, it's easy to see that they say exactly the same thing : "Anglicanism is a mixture of true and false principles."
Also, you say that the statement that I mentionned in my post above is a proof of the duplicity of Bishop Williamson. Sorry, dear friend, but it is not a proof of his duplicity, it's rather a proof of his sincerity ! I met the good bishop many times and I can tell you there is really no hypocrisy in him.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2018 22:41:55 GMT
Bishop Williamson didn't say that souls can be saved in the Anglican religion. You interpret his statement as you like. Here is what I read in a Catholic catechism about the Anglican religion (publish before Vatican II) : "It's true that the Anglican religion contains some points which don't contradict reason or the teaching of the Catholic Church, but if we look at all its principles, we see that many are false." Does that mean that this catechism is for ecumenism ? Certainly not ! If you compare the statement of Bishop Williamson about Anglicanism with what the catechism says, it's easy to see that they say exactly the same thing : "Anglicanism is a mixture of true and false principles." Also, you say that the statement that I mentionned in my post above is a proof of the duplicity of Bishop Williamson. Sorry, dear friend, but it is not a proof of his duplicity, it's rather a proof of his sincerity ! I met the good bishop many times and I can tell you there is really no hypocrisy in him. Bishop Williamson was wrong to use the words “the truth” and “the true worship of God” when referring the Anglican Church. He’s saying that you can find some of “the truth” and some of “the true worship of God” in an Anglican Church. This is false. John's example from the catechism uses the word “ points,” not “the truth” and in Fr. Gaudron’s The Catechism of the Crisis in the Church, the word “ vestiges” is used. There’s a big difference. from The Catechism of the Crisis in the Church:
Q. Isn’t it true that the schismatic communities, or even the heretical communities, conserve some elements of sanctification?
A. It is true that the Protestants conserve Sacred Scripture (more or less altered), and that the Eastern schismatics conserve the Sacraments. But traditional theology did not designate these realities stolen from the Catholic Church as “elements of sanctification” or “elements of the Church,” but rather as “vestiges” of the true religion. Q. Is the replacement of the term “vestiges” by the term “elements of the Church” important?
A. This change of vocabulary is not innocent because the word vestiges expressed an important truth: t he elements stolen from the Catholic Church by the separated communities by that very fact cease to be a living reality. They become “ruins”. Source: www.angelusonline.org/index.php?section=articles&subsection=show_article&article_id=2702 |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2018 23:13:10 GMT
John, wanting or waiting for a person to say a direct evil statement of such and such until people to believe it is evil does not happen all the time. We wish it was so easy. All error has a mixture of truth in it to deceive: intentionally or unintentionally. A statement also has a context attached to it depending on what the person wants to project. 1 - You say, BW did not say souls are saved in the Anglican religion. Saying so directly in audible words, you are correct. Saying it by fact, and catholic theology, he did. I'm glad you are willing to use the catholic catechism as a basis of thought. Let's continue with the same. We are taught: - God is truth.
- Where God is, there is the fullness of truth.
- Where there is the fullness of truth, there is God.
- God has one revelation professed perfectly by His Son and through His one Church for the salvation of souls.
- God made one religion for all men to be saved.
- There is only one religion and one church to be saved in (Acts 4).
- Having a Creator - creature relationship, allowing man to be in His Image and Likeness, God established an order of worship man OWES to God in minute detail.
- That act of worship is by Christ and instituted by Christ.
- That act of worship is ONLY found within God's church.
- No other religion and no other church has the worship of God in it. To say so is a blaspheme against the God the Holy Spirit -the Spirit of Truth.
- All other religions, churches, and its gods are devils (Psalms 95).
Therefore, - No other religion or church has the fullness of truth.
- No other religion or church has the person or presence of God.
- No other religion or church has the true worship of God.
- No other religion or church has the ability to please God.
- No other religion or church has salvation.
Bishop Williamson clearly stated on July 2018, not in 1534, or in 1950. He said so in 2018: - You will find truth in the Anglican church.
- You will find the true worship in the Anglican church.
- The Anglican church has true principles.
- Communicated as a catholic bishop, in a catholic pretense to a mixed crowd, using the words of a catholic bishop, "our Lord said...", he proclaimed for his mixed listeners, and all those diverse listeners in the world, "you shall find, knock, and it will be opened to you if you look for the truth and the true worship of God, you may find some of it in an Anglican church".
Quote: "Our Lord said seek and you shall find; knock and it will be open to you. If you look for the truth, and you look for the true worship of God, you may find some of it in an Anglican Church. But you start talking to the minister, probably his principles are most likely are not completely true.” (Bishop Richard Williamson, July 2016, @1:19:09, .youtube.com/watch?v=aQalQor5itQ ) Bishop Williamson therefore stated God is and can be found present in the Anglican religion and its church. Where God is found there is salvation. We know the Anglican church is separate from God's Catholic Church for a rebellious reason. Bishop Williamson, as a bishop, knowingly and clearly stated in 2018, therefore, there is salvation in the Anglican church. Does that have anything to do with his life and culture being an Anglican before converting in 1991? God knows. Does this have anything to do with BW believing in Pope Benedict's decree in 2009 accepting the Anglicans as they are into the conciliar church? 2 - Your intention to apply an unsourced idea of what the catholic catechism says regarding the Anglican church is very simplistic and distracting to the facts hereto. That same paragraph can be applied to protestants too, and the novus ordo, can it not? All religions have some truth in it. Doesn't mean one can SEEK and FIND the truth and worship in it as Bishop Williamson just said. 3 - The facts are clear, Bishop Williamson is consistent in his mind of ecumenism saying the SAME for the novus ordo religion and its conciliar church. Have you not read the link presented to you many times supplying you with his own quotes? cor-mariae.com/index.php?threads/quotes-of-bp-williamson-supporting-the-new-religion-and-conciliarism.4457/4 - John, trying and nuance his statement to something other is not fair to the bishop nor to the catholic world. Why is it that when Bishop Williamson says something, as a bishop, his followers always say he meant something else like a regulation enforcer and change the narration? Obviously what BW is doing is with deliberate independence of thought...quite offensive to God and a scandal to the catholic world. In addition, why is it the false resistance crowd always deliberately censors and deletes the evidence on their platforms, in this case as jonathan pointed out, the video is gone, and now you all come out of the woodwork and try to change the context of what he said? When for two years you were quiet and hiding in the dark? That too is deceitful. We have no intention to embarrass or insult you, nor do we wish you to do the same, however, trying to alter the bishops words to suit your biased view of him only leaves you both in an estranged position with God. 5 - By the way, the Anglican church was publicly declared by Pope Leo in 1896 within his Apostolicae Curae, On the Nullity of Anglican Orders, stating, ordinations performed using the Anglican rite were, and always had been, absolutely null and void. There is no truth and no worship in the Anglican church! Never was from its beginning of 1534, and still not on July 2016 when Bishop Williamson said there is. So any context you wish in your simplistic paragraph relates to a condemnation to the Anglican religion and is applied as an accidental to it. Which is not what Bishop Williamson said. He said in 2016, you can SEEK and FIND truth and worship in the Anglican church. Big difference. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2018 2:13:47 GMT
Anglicanism was created through divorce, literally, by King Henry VIII illegally from his wife and from the Catholic Church. Anglicanism is a protestant denomination. On a side, the word protestant comes from the french verb "protesting". Its root word is protest -very appropriate.
The Anglican church and the Episcopalian church are the same religion. The name Episcopalian was termed in the usa after the American Revolutionary War:
The only difference between them is the Anglicans are treated as the "traditional" form and the Episcopalians as a more liberal form.
So Bishop Williamson, in extension, had said in principle there is truth and worship in the Episcopalian church as well. When does it stop...?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2018 2:27:51 GMT
Have to love the principle stuff from the bishop. He's really been on a mission lately proselytizing other religions having good and bad in them to find truth. He said this about the novus ordo mass a year earlier. What's the point? He maintains a dubious ambiguous cloud around him.
The false sounds more like a hen house with a lot of unintelligible clucking.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2018 2:52:51 GMT
Trying to catch up on all this is a headache. This is easily explained when you see bp.W acts like a multi-sided gem. Each side glossed with a trad-ecumenist view. Each follower sees what they like in reflection on a particular side and memorized by the 'gem'. But they forget, or do not want to admit, the bishop has other glossed sides saying the opposite to another reflection.
His followers need to understand the glow of the gem is not the glow of the church but of a sweet talking man telling them what they want to hear. The more his supporters look at themselves each in the multi-sided gem, the more there is conflict in what they see from one another and have something to disagree with. What can they expect otherwise?
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Post by Admin on Mar 25, 2018 10:09:31 GMT
Trying to catch up on all this is a headache. This is easily explained when you see bp.W acts like a multi-sided gem. Each side glossed with a trad-ecumenist view. Each follower sees what they like in reflection on a particular side and memorized by the 'gem'. But they forget, or do not want to admit, the bishop has other glossed sides saying the opposite to another reflection. His followers need to understand the glow of the gem is not the glow of the church but of a sweet talking man telling them what they want to hear. The more his supporters look at themselves each in the multi-sided gem, the more there is conflict in what they see from one another and have something to disagree with. What can they expect otherwise? Very very well said, Tobias! One of the best explanations I've heard. Very succinct. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2018 14:02:26 GMT
What needs to be asked and flushed out is intent. What was BW's intent to say such a thing? Ultimately we do not know, however, we see his context of speech in other areas and present life showing this is not the first time he made lucrative remarks. Over the last 6-years he has made several statements for himself and others to accept other forms of liberal thought accepting the sedevacantist, feeneyites, novus ordo..., as such, to accept other religions as vessels of election and salvation.
He did say in his Eleison Comments, #277, And Now?, on Nov. 3, 2012, "I am ready to put my bishop's power's at the disposal of whoever can make wise use of them." So this is not a coincidence.
Since the explosion of July 2015 when he brought to the forefront his views for the tangible allowance to go to the novus ordo mass and on a regular basis, which is clearly a different religion, "if you think it is in your conscience...do whatever you need to nourish your faith", these are words we expect the modernist pope Francis would say; and does.
There is noticed a similitude in his mind regarding the novus ordo and Anglicanism, that is yet, so far distinct and opposite from the catholic faith. The only similitude, which the devil likes to ape God, is in the mass. Which gets to the major point here. It shows a funneled opinion in BW's mind, the faith is about the mass. This expression is consistent when he says it is ok to go to the sedevacantist masses and the feeneyintes masses. Even though they share nothing in common in the objective aspects of the faith, they share the common generalities of the mass.
So is that what this has come down to for him: the expression of the faith in the mass and not the principle of the faith itself? This is the same error of Bishop Fellay. He now heralds the mass, not the faith, as the banner like the FSSP, the new Campos and the others... Hence the crisis and civil war against these groups. And now we need to fight Bishop Williamson over the same abhorring issue.
Thus in looking at BW's intent, we see the same digressive road in his mind and the whole of the false resistance that cannot see God in the faith but only in the mass. Regardless all of these groups may use the word "faith", St. Paul says it is empty.
Which now makes sense why BW and his other accepting bishops, priests, and diversed followers say what they say, they have an indult view of the faith and acceptance the denominator of the mass, any mass, for them is good. And the faith, which we contest with them, takes second seat with conflated-ambiguous-deflective-hidden comments as they do. Thus, It makes additional sense why BW makes these plural statements about the faith as it is not the first premise and principle for him any longer as the Dino.
So much for principles BW used to say of old. He has changed for sure and admits to it. He no longer lives his life on principles but a global indult thinking to accept all thought as long as the denominator of the mass is present. Sounds like a bishop who gave up the fight and is only comfortable in himself to do less. Probably why he has a diverse group of trad-ecumenists around him.
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