Fr. Hesse: Clarity on Bad Popes

Published on Apr 10, 2018
This is a Fr. Hesse talk covering many notable topics, including clarity on bad and heretical Popes, how it is a sin to follow their errors, and many factors that are especially relevant with what is coming to a head with Pope Francis.

Timestamped Notable Parts and Statements from Fr. Hesse’s Talk (referred to in video description):

00:51 – On the Name of God, its sacredness, and about using His Name in vain.

4:06 – On the attributes of God.

6:55 – On private inspiration.

9:07 – “It is exactly according to Church Tradition that when the bell rings for vespers, you go there! You don't say, ‘I'm sorry, I'm just on the phone, I can't come right now.’ No! If you're talking to the Pope himself, you say, ‘Sorry, Holy Father, just now the bell for Vespers rang. I call you back tomorrow.’ Click, you hang up, and you go for Vespers. That is Church Tradition! You follow Church Tradition in obedience, then you obey in the sense that Our Lord was talking about obedience.”

9:43 – “Today they have a different concept of obedience. They are the people who tell you that no matter what you think, no matter what they said in the old days, no matter how you believed it to be: if the Pope tells you to do it, then you do it. That's the old saying, ‘If the Pope dyes his hair green, you better do it too.’ With the present Pope I wouldn't be surprised, but... That's not Christian or Catholic obedience. Back in Germany or Austria, they used to say, ‘The way the Pope clears his throat you are supposed to spit.’ That is a type of obedience that you will find in a military dictatorship, it's the type of obedience you will find in other types of dictatorship, it's a type of obedience that even in the good old days, before Hillary turned it into a liberal outfit, would have been unthinkable in the Armed Forces of the United States. Unthinkable. Even in basic training.”

13:28 – “If the Pope in a state of absentmindedness or being drunk or whatever would tell you to jump out the window of the third floor of the Apostolic Palace, you would have to say, ‘Excuse me Holy Father, I don't know why you're getting off the rocker but I'm sure not going to do that.’ And you do not commit a sin. On the contrary, you would if you followed him. The Pope just like any other human being – is bound to the Ten Commandments. The Pope is bound to the canon law that he published and signed. If there's something in the canon law that he published and he doesn't like, then he has to change the canon law as much as this is possible. But he cannot say, ‘Yeah, right, I signed the canon law of 1983, but I'm the Pope and I don't have to follow it.’ Wrong, wrong, wrong! The Pope has to follow the Ten Commandments, the Will of Christ, the Tradition of the Church, and his own canon law.”

16:54 – “What is the limit of obedience towards the Pope? [...] One of the questions is, ‘Aren't we bound in total obedience to the Pope?’ The answer is, ‘Definitely not.’ What are the limits to the Pope's freedom of decision? [...] Second, the Pope cannot contradict the Church Fathers. Third, he cannot contradict the first four Councils as such and he cannot contradict any further Council as long as it is not dogmatically defined. Dogmatically defined things he cannot contradict. Things that the Council decided forever, such as moral decisions, he cannot contradict. If we talk about disciplinary regulations (which always were issued at Councils and which nobody bothers to put in the collection of Church teaching), yes of course he can. But not dogmatic or moral decisions of a Council. Number four: he cannot contradict what is called status ecclesia [...]”

23:05 – “If the Pope tries to change anything that is part of the status ecclesia and you follow him and you should know better, then you are in the state of mortal sin (unless you don't know better). But to follow the Pope into error means not obedience, but sin! Remember what St. Paul said: ‘If an angel out of Heaven was to bring you another gospel, don't accept it.’ [Galatians 1:8-9] Even if an angel himself.”

27:49 – “So the concept of a Pope being outside the Church is old! Many Popes talked about it. Pope Innocent III said that. Pope Innocent III said to all of his successors and all bishops, ‘Don't ever make the mistake of thinking that because you have the graces, the power, and the dignity of the office, it doesn't matter if you commit a sin like this.’ And he reminded his successors saying, ‘Who cannot be judged by men will be judged all the more by God!’ With God there is only justice. In no contradiction to mercy. And the most culpable person on Earth is ALWAYS the Pope no matter what happens because he is the highest up. He's the highest person on Earth. He's not the head of the Church [Christ is], he's only the highest person in the Church [Christ's Vicar]. He is the highest bishop in the Church, the highest priest in the Church. He is the Summus Pontifex (the highest priest on Earth). Like in ancient Rome. The Summus Pontifex was the highest peacekeeper. The one who built the bridge between two hills in Rome that fought each other.”

29:37 – “[The Pope] is not Christ. He's not the founder of the Church. He's not even the head of the Church. He's the VICAR of Christ. And ever since St. Gregory the Great, the highest title of the Pope is, ‘Servus Servorum Dei’: the Servant of the Servants of God! The Pope does a very bad service to you if he does not represent the Church doctrine in its entirety and he does a very bad service to you if he lies to you about Church doctrine or the Gospel.”

31:49 – “The question is: ‘Are we not in disobedience to the Pope because the Pope would tell Fr. Baldock [Bolduc] and he would tell me that we have to celebrate the New Mass and we don't do it’ (and we will NEVER do it over our dead bodies! Amen!)? So are we not in disobedience to the Pope? Well: we are in disobedience to Karol Wojtyla, not to the [office of the] Pope. Not to the highest principle in the Church. The Pope is only the Vicar of Christ. He's only the Servant of the Servants of God. He's really nothing else but that. If he fails to do his duty in this, I will not listen to him [in his illicit commands]! I will not listen to a Pope who proclaims heresy! The present Pope – and before anybody walks out on me now you better hear and wait for my PROOF for what I say! – the present Pope is the most heretical Pope in history. NO POPE ever in history was SUCH a heretic! However, there were heretical Popes BEFORE the present one. There were heretical Popes before John XXIII even. There was that funny little old Pope Liberius. [...]”

32:46 – On Pope Liberius, Pope Honorius, Pope John XXII and their material heresies.

42:16 – An exposition of one of Pope John Paul II’s heresies.

46:19 – “There cannot be error, you see. There cannot be error. Because even with the lousy cardinals and bishops around today, you can bet your life that somebody (at least the good old Cardinal Ciappi Dominican house theologian of the Pope) would have pointed all of this out to the Pope. I mean this was printed in the L'Osservatore Romano! I'm not making this up. This was in a newspaper and so and so many hundreds of people heard the Pope saying this in an audience. And the Pope is reading the L'Osservatore Romano. I mean if he finds this in there and he doesn't like it, it's not sufficient for a Pope to say, ‘I don't like this.’ He will have to call the editor and say, ‘Hey, what's the matter with you bum?’ But no! The L'Osservatore Romano for the last twenty years is packed with heresy almost every week! I just gave you one example. Here's another example: [...]”

50:33 – Why the Pope being a material heretic is still Pope.

54:11 – On the claim that traditional priests are just emotionally attached to outdated forms of worship.

56:28 – “Now it's a parish soviet, a diocesan soviet, priest soviet in the diocese, the bishop's soviet in the country, it's the bishop's soviet on the continent, and it's the synod soviet in Rome. Soviet means council. Nothing else. A Pope who defines the unity of the Church as such does not KNOW what the Church is. He doesn't even know what it is. And this explains at the same time to you why he is a [material] schismatic but doesn't cease to be Pope. Objectively, he's a schismatic. He's not in unity with the Church because he rejects what unites the Church; namely, liturgy and faith. He doesn't celebrate the Mass. He celebrates a crummy new rite that belongs in the trash can. And he doesn't uphold the Faith because he pronounces heresy. But at the same time, he doesn't know what he's talking about quite obviously! That doesn't make him cease to be Pope! That only makes the poor guy a [material] heretic and [material] schismatic that God will judge, not you and not I. We do not judge the Pope here. But we have to clarify our state in the Church. When we say we do not obey him, we have to add the most important and vital distinction: we do not obey him as long as he is a heretic and schismatic. If we were to say we do not obey him, period, then we are the schismatics. No: we must be precise on that. I do not obey the Pope as long as he's a heretic and schismatic. As long as the Pope does not take his heresies back publicly, I will not listen to him. If he issues a command against the Will of Christ, I will not obey his commands on that subject. No way! I do not obey illegal commands.”

59:14 – “Obedience is never more important than faith! And if anyone says to you that you are a schismatic, you say, ‘Nope, not me, you!’ You go to a Mass that is against the Will of Christ. I don't. [...]”

1:02:04 – The Conciliar Church’s definition of the visibility of the Church and how it’s wrong.

1:02:50 – On the Church’s indefectibility.

1:03:34 – “The Church as such is indefectible. But the indefectibility of the Church does NOT mean that all of the members are alright.”

1:05:59 – “Michael Davies says that since the Church is indefectible, it could not come up with such an abomination as the Novus Ordo [rite of Mass]. The Church never came up with the Novus Ordo! The Church didn't. A traitorous, non-believing, [materially] schismatic Pope came up with the New Mass: namely, Paul VI of most infelicitous memory. He had the New Mass written up by a Freemason named Bugnini! He published the New Mass against the will of the Church, but not even he managed to give his signature to a document that would oblige you or I to use it. The Church's indefectibility has never been touched in the least by the fact that that abomination of the Novus Ordo was published. Michael Davies suffers from a partial new heresy that we have been warned about in the 1920s when a certain Abbet La Roche (French priest) said, ‘Now that Pius X has effectively dealt with the heresy of modernism we are going to face the worst of all heresies and that is the heresy that says that the Pope can do anything.’ One of the most common heresies in the United States of America.”

1:08:37 – “You have been taught to obey the law and that is the cause for a lot of papalism in this country. Many people in this country are not capable of distinguishing between the lawful authority of the Pope and his dictatorial omnipotence. Well there's no such things as a dictatorial omnipotence with the Pope. The Pope tells you to dye your hair green, you will say, ‘ha ha ha, good one!’ So the Pope is not in the power to tell you things that are not backed by the Church government, by the Church Tradition, and by the Church teaching (on morals especially). And papalism in this country is one of the major causes of so many people attending that boring, stupid, idiotic, and imbecile rite called ‘The New Mass.’”

1:09:53 – “If we have a new faith and religion since Vatican II, can we have one Pope over both? That is a very good question. Yes. [...]”

1:11:05 – “And I told you that we have a Pope who pronounces one heresy after the other and he doesn't cease to be Pope. Why would he cease to be Pope if at the same time he heads a Novus Ordo, United Nation, B'nai B'rith, Jewish Masonry club called ‘the Church of the New Advent’ : a neo-gnostic sect?”

1:11:42 – “See this is another one of those arguments. They tell me, ‘Oh, Fr. Hesse, you are right and 2,800 bishops are wrong.’ Yes! That's exactly what it is! That's EXACTLY what it is. 3,500 (I don't even know how many we got right now), 3,500 bishops are wrong and I'm right. So what!? At the time of Pope Liberius a couple of hundred bishops were wrong and Athanasius was right! Who got the 'S' [Saint] before his name? Athanasius became ‘St. Athanasius’. Liberius and his crony bishops didn't. And I'd rather be one of the last few hundred members of the Catholic Church than one of the one billion members of ‘the Church of the New Advent’! If numbers decide who is right, then I can tell you who is right: the Muslims are. They have the most members. Right? One-and-a-half billion people can't be wrong. So our God is ‘Allah’ and ‘Mohammed is his prophet’. Numbers don't count before God. God said, ‘Many are called, few are chosen.’ [Matthew 22:14] I'm not saying I'm the chosen one; I just give you the truth here. If I make it to Heaven, you'll find out after the Last Judgement if I made it, but you definitely can rest assured about the fact that I will try my very best to give you what I have received.”

1:18:55 – “’Where does the present Church exist? Does it only exist at present in the Society of St. Pius X and its faithful?’ As St. Athanasius said, no. The Catholic Church exists in two ways: the visible, objective way. In the visible, objective way, the Catholic Church exists wherever the Pope is not denied and the old Mass is celebrated. Objectively, visible way. That means, as a group, the Society of St. Pius X is the only one because as a group it is not objectively in heresy. I told you that the Fraternity of St. Peter and the Institute of Christ the King are objectively in heresy and I told you why. Objectively: I repeat that; that's important that you understand that. Objectively, not the individual priest. Objectively, the Society as such, not the individual priest. […] In the objective, visible way, the Society of the St. Pius X is one of the few groups in the world that are representative of the Catholic Church.”

1:22:20 – How you cannot subjectively judge others or automatically consider someone outside the Church even if they are objectively in heresy (they might not know better for example). Subjective vs. objective.

1:26:08 – “Why is it that Fr. Baldock [Bolduc] and I are not exactly in perfect harmony with the present Pope? Well because the present Pope is not exactly in perfect harmony with Church teaching, Tradition, and even the tradition of canon law. A Pope who speaks heresy, commits schismatic acts, and knows nothing about canon law is not exactly […].”

1:27:37 – On the importance of being patient with souls of good will who are confused and genuinely interested in the truth.

1:34:39 – “And while the Society of St. Pius X – like any society in this world – is packed with human beings who make terrible mistakes, and while you might have an unfortunate encounter with a member of the Society of St. Pius X, who I guarantee you are not all saints, then please remember the fact that in the so-called ‘good old days,’ like in the 1930s or the 1880s or whatever, I can guarantee you that any local bishop would have been exceedingly happy if his clergy had the average level of the Society of St. Pius X priests. […] The average of the Society priests is high and we can't expect more than that. We NEVER in history were able to expect more than that. The average of the diocesan clergy in the 1950s was a major disaster. They were not like now: perverts who you know what – I don't even want to mention it – but the average was disastrous, believe me.”

1:37:34 – Fr. Hesse answers a question on how the new Code of Canon Law fails to specify which organizations membership in constitutes excommunication (like the Freemasons).

1:38:55 – Fr. Hesse answers the question, “What about the Freemasons is bad?” “Objectively the Freemasons are enemies of the Church. They still hold to the old doctrine of Voltaire who said, ‘raze the infamous’ (meaning the Catholic Church). Many and the majority of Masons will deny this to you but then their code of honor says you must. There cannot be any doubt that, objectively speaking, whoever belongs to the Lodge is an enemy of the Church and as such is excommunicated.”