New-SSPX: Do not fear modern rome!
May 20, 2018 5:26:44 GMT
Post by Deleted on May 20, 2018 5:26:44 GMT
In another attempt to bring their people into the folds of modernist rome, Fr. Muscha, SSPX, gave a sermon making a case to justify their NEED to harmonize into the conciliar system. The language this priest used was the familiar and attracting voice of Archbishop Lefebvre mixed with a little history. But there is a problem, the SSPX priest construed the history to conform to modern rome than modern rome conform to history.
The path of the sermon was the SAME strategy of his superiors. Take the context of the Archbishop in the early 1970s and the Church still in some semblance the Archbishop was acting in, skip all the rest and reality of the fullness of Vatican II decades past in reason one CANNOT participate with the false religion (i.e. conciliarism), only to jump to 2018 and call it only a bad faith on the part of humans. We need to get along and embrace our diocesan bishops as they are or we are in real schism. (sic) In schism to what exactly?
Same old.
Below is a transcription of the recent sermon given at a SSPX chapel, Walton KY.
(The bold and underline is mine. Red highlight is my comments denoting his axis of change and construing of facts.)
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The path of the sermon was the SAME strategy of his superiors. Take the context of the Archbishop in the early 1970s and the Church still in some semblance the Archbishop was acting in, skip all the rest and reality of the fullness of Vatican II decades past in reason one CANNOT participate with the false religion (i.e. conciliarism), only to jump to 2018 and call it only a bad faith on the part of humans. We need to get along and embrace our diocesan bishops as they are or we are in real schism. (sic) In schism to what exactly?
Same old.
Below is a transcription of the recent sermon given at a SSPX chapel, Walton KY.
(The bold and underline is mine. Red highlight is my comments denoting his axis of change and construing of facts.)
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[Fr. Muscha, SSPX]
In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost Amen
A week from ago this past Friday I'm sure most of you heard, not all of you , that His Excellency Bishop Rogers Foys , the bishop of the diocese of Covington came to visit the church the school, and some asked well why would the bishop come, why would we have the bishop here , why would we allow him to see, and I think to understand that question, to understand why we would allow him to come, we have to go back when the Society began on November 1, 1970 . It was founded as priestly society without vows. It was a simple society meant to give priests a rule of life . So it was not a religious order, as we know it. They would not have superiors. It would be more like the priests living a common life, kind of like a 3rd order. it was a pious union, began only in 1 diocese, given permission only by 1 bishop , but the Archbishop started the Society to train good priests. It was given to the priesthood and we can see that in the statutes, the rules that Archbishop Lefebvre set up the society with. He says the Society is a priestly society of common life w/o vows, after the pattern of the society of foreign missions. However, it is founded in the spirit of profound faith and perfect obedience in the steps of the Divine Master. so it is not a religious order, the priests do not take vows . That was how it was originally set up. And further in the statues the Society is placed specifically under the patronage of the presthood of Jesus for Our Lord's whole existence was and remains priestly and the sacrifice of the cross was the reason for His Incarnation .
Thus will the society's member for whom (Mici bivreChristus est.) ?? latin....to live is to live christ is a reality......they will live in a way entirely directed toward the Sacrifice of the Mass and Our Lord's sacred passion . So we see the priesthood was the essence of what Archbishop Lefebvre founded the Society for, to preserve the Catholic priesthood , to train good priests . And it goes on in fact such as the foremost of the society's activities all the work necessary for the formation of priests and whatever pertains there to. Thus seminaries whether they are those of the Society or not must take care that the training attain its chief goal- the priest's holiness together with sufficient knowledge. This is why the priest was placed under patronage of St. Pius X. So you can see that it is the primary work ....Archbishop Lefebvre beginning seminary, international seminary, to train good priests because the world, following VII, the seminaries (so many of the errors)? of vii, the modernist errors, the liberal errors and there was no longer formation be given to priests.
The Archbishop goes on. ... in addition to this work of training seminarians, the Society was founded to sanctify priests, by preaching retreats, looking after old priests, and even helping fallen priests. The Society was about priesthood, it's what the Society was founded for, to train priests, to help priests, and to help make holy priests. But we know that although the Society was begun just as a pious union like similar to a 3rd order for priests in a certain way as it continued it soon became very difficult for Archbishop to find dioceses that would accept his priests, his seminarians, that would take them because they did not have their own superior, they
did not belong to the Society as in the sense of a religious order but they belonged to different diocese so he was training the seminarians, and some might belong to a diocese in Germany, some in Switzerland, some in France, some in America, some in England, all over the world, and he would just find a diocese that they would have to be incardinated and belong to that diocese and when they were ordained they would go back and would work in that diocese.
You see the archbishop was not training priests for the society in the beginning , he was training priests for the diocese and the church, but soon as the archbishop because he stuck to old Mass he continued to train priests as the church always did , he soon began to create more and more enemies, they were labeled as a wildcat seminary. And as that continued the archbishop realized that he might have to start seeking to have the seminarians, the priests belong to society as like a religious order, be incardinated into the diocese. So he went to rome, and rome gave him permission for ?? priests and such, well then pretty soon by 1974 the bishop of the diocese, Bishop charie?? retired , Bishop Ami? ?, the new bishop, took over and he decided he didn't like Econe , he didn't like the society, and he wanted to disband it and so he suppressed the society. The problem was that the Archbishop always held that the Society at that point had grown, it had received the right to incardinate into its membership, into the order so that members would belong specifically there and have superiors and it could not be suppressed by a bishop but only by Rome. So he continued on. You see it was the work of the church,. he always insisted upon that, and he continued on until finally he was suspended in 1976 and he was suspended a Divinis for ordaining priests, because the church, the pope would have said that the priests did not belong, they didn't belong to the diocese and they did not believe that the society had right to incardinate , to accept priests and clerics belonging to them like a religious order and so if Archbishop Lefebvre ordaining priests and they don't have a superior ,that is worthy of the suspension. so they suspended him. Of course , the Archbishop always felt that that was illegal, and so he continued on. But we notice that even in the midst of this when Rome is attacking the Archbishop he goes back to talk to Rome. [There is so
much wrong in this narration and his depiction makes the situation more
of a feeling than a reality of illegal -- NOT in law, NOT in force. See
here The Legal Maneuver of the neo-sspx! ]
He doesn't cut them off, he doesn't push them away , he doesn't say I will only talk to you once you convert,
he continues to go back and in fact he goes and he meets Pope Paul VI at one point and in their conversation, this Pope Paul VI who is speaking...... you have no right to oppose the council . You are a scandal for the Church. You destroy the Church, it is horrible. You raise up christians against the pope and against the council. Do you feel nothing in your conscience that condemns you?
Nothing at all ....the Archbishop responds.
You are irresponsible.
I know i am continuing the Church, I train good priests.
That is not true. You make priests against the pope, you make them sign an oath against the pope.
I do what? On hearing this incredible allegation i put my head in my hand and i can still see myself doing this and saying.... Most Holy Father , how can you say such a thing to me? I have them sign an oath against the pope. Can you show me a copy of this oath? He was amazed.
He was so convinced of the truth of what Cardinal Vinone??? probably had told him.
He continued. ... Paul VI..... you condemn the pope. What orders will you give me, what must I do, hand in my resignation? and then you can take my place .
Ahhh, i put my head in my hands. Most Holy Father don't say things like that. No no no. let me carry on. you have the solution in your hands . You only need to say one thing to the bishops. ...welcome with understanding these groups of faithful who hold on to tradition, the Mass , the sacraments, and the catechism of all time . Give them places of worship. These groups will be the church. You will find vocations among them and they will be the best in the church. [Now comes the shift of paradigm. Quickly skip over the crime of idolatry in the developed new religion.]
So you can see the archbishop, he was far from the sedevacantist attitude. he was totally convinced of the authority of the pope and he had very much a great respect and love for the office, for his holy father. We have to remember this is the same pope that signed all the documents of VII. This is the pope whom the Archbishop felt had really handicapped and allowed this crisis in the Church and yet he goes and speaks with him and later on in the early 1980 's , I believe it was 1984 , he speaks in a sermon...... perhaps one day in 30 or 40
years a meeting of cardinals gathered together by a future pope will study and judge the reign of paul VII, perhaps they will say that there were things that ought to have been clearly obvious to people at the time . Statements of the pope that were totally against tradition, at the moment i prefer to consider the man on the chair of peter as the pope. And if one day we discover for certain that the pope was not pope at least i will have done my duty. When he is not using the charism of infallibility the pope can error.So why should we be scandalized and say, "so there is no pope." Like Arius who was scandalized by OUr Lord being humiliated and saying in his passion, " My God, why have you abandoned Me?" Arius reasoned: Therefore , He is not God.
So you can see the Archbishop , although he understood why souls would fall into the error of sedevacantism, he rejects it. He had always rejected it because the pope can error. And so although the Archbishop continued and we can say even in the 80's at a certain point he cut off ties with Rome, at various moments, he refused to speak with them and it was only when Rome was hostile , was attacking him, trying to crush them , and then he would cut off. But whenever Rome would open up, show some good will, however small, the Archbishop was ready to go back. That's why we find him going back in 1987, speaking with Cardinal Ratzinger, and he was speaking, trying to get some bishops, and of course, we know that Rome kept putting him off, and the Archbishop was an old man, at that point in 1988 he was 83 years old. He was afraid death was getting close. It could come at any time. His health was not very strong. And finally because he felt the double dealings of Rome he consecrated the bishops. The 4 bishops. And of course, Rome reacts and excommunicates him and the bishops. Of course, we never believed these excommunications were valid because the Archbishop was acting out of a case of necessity because he wanted he needed to continue the work of the Church and there is no doubt he felt that real necessity . The Archbishop even before he died , even after the consecrations he began to make certain overtures to Rome, going back even after he is "excommunicated" by Rome, he goes back, he begins to speak in a very small way but before the conversation got anywhere his health, his health got so bad he could no longer continue and of course we know he passed away in 1991. But this mission which he gave the society continued and there continued to be certain dealings with Rome according as Rome showed good will towards the society.
And of course we know that HIs Holiness Pope Benedict XVI became pope there was definitely a much more favorable attitude towards the society, towards tradition. And so on July 7, 2007, Benedict XVI
releases the Moto Proprio, freeing the old Mass, of course we always said the old Mass and only the old Mass and we always believed that we always had a right to say the old Mass. And every priest had a right to say the old Mass. But this Moto Proprio there is no doubt was a statement to the whole world telling priests they were free to say the old Mass. Making it clear and the old Mass became more and more common , more and more priests saying it, and it became a source of grace, of course, these priests, many times, were still imbued with the errors of VII, there's still a crisis, but if they are saying the old Mass, Graces are going to flow. And of course, we know that on Jan. 21, 2009, Pope Benedict XVI lifted the excommunications of our 4 bishops. WE never believed they were excommunicated in the 1st place. But this was a visible statement to the world , one more obstacle when people were coming, they cannot say you are excommunicated, and so this was a great something we could be thankful for . On Sept. 1, 2015, the Pope granted the society jurisdiction for Confession, for 1 year, but of course we know after that one year he granted it forever , granted it permanantly . Of course, we always held our confessions were valid because the Church supplies jurisdiction . Normally a priest could only hear confessions in his church , in his parish, but if I were, let's say, in a different church just visiting and I was visiting there and somebody were to come and ask me for confession I would be able to hear their confession because the Church would supply that jurisdiction.
Whether its a case of necessity or not any priests anywhere if asked by someone to hear their confession could hear their confession. And so, although we believed we always held the case of necessity and so the people coming and going to confession and wanting it and so the Church supplied. So we always held our confessions were valid . Nothing has changed. But now they can't accuse us of that.
March 27, 2017, the pope comes out with a letter asking the bishops of the world to grant the society jurisdiction for marriages. Of course, we always held our marriages was valid bcause of the case of necessity . But at least now it is a regular situation . Nobody can accuse us that we don't have jurisdiction because it's clear we do , it's regular. [There it is. From the mouth of a new-sspx priest.] Before it was supplied because of necessity and now it's given by the bishop as it would be if the church was in normal times. And the only thing that the bishop asks , Fr. Wegner and myself went to see the bishop , in November, this past November, to ask the bishop if he would grant us jurisdiction for our marriages and , of course, he was very gracious and complied. [Comply they did. To all of the conciliar reform that regulates it.] And the only thing he asks is that we send the paper work to him. It first goes to our district, it is first approved by the society that this marriage is indeed able to go forward and then we take the paper work and we send it to the diocese. And a few days later we receive the official delegation for that priest to witness that marriage. And then at the end we send them a copy of the paper work . WE keep a copy ourselves , and a copy for the district, but they get a copy which is absolutely toally normal that the diocese would keep track of the sacraments that happen within that diocese. Put all of these things from the Moto Proprio to the lifting of the excommunications to the granting of jurisdiction for our confessions and our marriages the Society has not changed. (!!!!!!) She never compromised anything , she was not forced to give anything, it was totally Rome granting it. (!!!!!!) Which is pretty extraordinary when you think about it. Rome which has been condemning us, attacking us for 40 years, and now they are granting the regularization . Really the situation is extraordinary you think about for our marriages and even our confessions they still hold that we are not in a regular situation.
So normally the faithful should not be coming to us they would say that we are irregular which if times were normal it would be true . But yet they are granting us jurisdictions for confessions and marriages.
So it's really quite extraordinary , it's not something very small at all, . By granting us jurisdiction
for confessions and marriages in a certain way they are saying our situation may be not totally regular is still quite regular. We can say that it's very interesting but where does this leave us? Where does all these happenings leave us? Is the crisis over? Of course not. Of course not. Rome is in many ways worse than ever before. The Pope has made statements that are confusing, and has confused the Church more than ever. Most especially the one about divorced Catholics receiving Communion.
It's really a terrible situation we're in. The crisis is far, far from over. But we must remember as well that as a Pope and the Church begins to go one way the Pope and his statements he has prompted many priests, many bishops, many faithful to lean more and more to Tradition. [ Or really Neo-Tradition?] To lean more and more coming back to the old Mass . Even bishops within , the bishop in , um, San Francisco saying that if he did not train his priests , his seminarians to say the old Mass , he would have no vocations. They are coming for the old Mass. They are coming for Tradition. And so we cannot say that the crisis is over, it is far from over the situation is worse and worse in many ways. And I would say in many ways the hardest part of the fight is yet to be fought. We're only beginning. I think we might be able to say that by personal opinion and that's it , but I think we might be able to say we're starting to come out of the crisis a bit . Only in the sense that people are waking up. (!!!!!)
It's not over. And it's just the beginning that people are starting to go back to Tradition. [Vatican II tradition? Its "living" tradition. Let us not forget, it is the superior (modern rome) that forms the inferior (neo-sspx). ] But the pope , the bishops still are attached to VII. It is still taught in the seminaries. It is still the Novus Ordo Mass is considered the regular the normal Mass . [Pray tell. It is such because you agreed to it by accepting the hideous Moto Proprio!] And the extraordinary form is the Latin. So no, we are not over. But yet, the one thing that the Society, I think, today, our mission is exactly the same. Archbishop Lefebvre L insisted that the Society is not meant to be involved in polemics. (?!!!!) Polemics mean attacking. Finding problems with it and attacking the Church. And he would say that is not the position , that is not what the Society was founded for. [So is the new program accepting conciliar "jurisdiction". Compromise full tilt!] She was founded to continue the faith of 2000 years. She was founded to continue giving the sacraments, for train priests, priests that would be faithful to the Mass and the sacraments and the Church of all time . And so the mission of the Society is exactly the same . the famous statement of the 1974 declaration of the Archbishop which really shook the church , shook Rome up was still just as valid today as it was then . We adhere with our whole hearts , and with our whole soul, to Catholic Rome . the guardian of the Catholic faith and of those traditions necessary for the maintenance of that faith, to eternal Rome mistress of wisdom and truth because of this adherence we refuse and have always refused to follow the Rome of Neo modenists , neo protestant tendencies, such as were clearly manifested during the second vatican council . And after the council in all the resulting reforms . that statement is just as valid today. (!!!!!) But we must remember that the Society can be a life.... lux luca, lux vestra (
Latin)......let your light shine before men.
You put your light on a candlestick to shine for the whole world . And so when you ask why did the bishop of the diocese come. .....because he wanted to . He's the bishop of the diocese. We pray for him at every Mass just as we pray for the pope. and we promise obedience to him in all things that do not go against faith and morals.
if he tells us to say the new Mass, that is against the faith and more (morals?) . If he asks that he can come and visit and have a meal with the priests and visit the church and the school that is not against faith and morals. . That's his perogitive as the bishop of the diocese. and so yes, then we say yes. And that is why he visited. But we must remember that when the bishop , when he did leave he was definitely quite pleased from what I could tell and in a certain way very impressed , perhaps even edified and perhaps even a bit jealous . but think about it, when you see how bad the Church is, and he comes and comes into it and sees the quality of our faithful , the way we dress, the way our church is, when he goes down and he sees the school and he sees the children , he hears about the vocations that are coming from us, he sees the large families, he even sees visiting with the priests we have 3 young priests and one middle aged priest, when you look at the diocese so many of the priests are 60 yrs old or above. And yet our average age is very very young. . The hope young families the hope that that has to give, that is the mission of the Society to be a certain way a liferaft. As a ship the Church is going towards shipwreck. And perhaps we can be something that people can hang on to to hopefully get them to shore. We can't replace the ship but hopefully we can help them get to shore. And that is what the society is meant for. To be alight in the darkness. And there's no need to be afraid. Sometimes its we are afraid, afraid of the world, afraid to talk to the people in the world, afraid to talk to the Novus Ordo bishop and priests because we are afraid they are going to attack us and kill us . [Sic]
In the early days of the society when they were almost trying to crush us , they tried to harm us,,and we were very small and they didn't succeed .
They suspended the society, they excommunicated the bishops, they did their darndest to stamp it out
and it grew. And today we are more than 600 priests , we are more than 1100 members throughout the world . We're no longer a little society , we're big. And here in America we are the largest district as far as the number of faithful in the world for the society . So , why are we afraid?
We should be proclaiming our work to the whole world. Please come and see what we're doing.
Come and see what the old Mass brings. Come and see where the vocations come from. This is what a Catholic school was and is. And we only continue the work of the Church. And so we should all be happy when the bishop comes. Because we can be that light. We know the dangers. We are well aware of them. The society has had 40 years of it. And nobody, nobody wants to compromise that ( fun?) .
But what we must not do is cut ourself off from Rome, because we will not give them the grace, we can be a grace to them. And that is what the Archbishop always did , always insisted upon. Continuing the fight for the faith of 2000 years and Rome eventually , one day, when and how we don't know, but one day, the Church will come back . Rome will come back to the faith of our ancestors, the faith of all time.
But more than ever we need you. Your prayers, your sacrifices for our superior general and our priests
for our families, for our young men in the seminary, for vocations, and it is something that we must all renew our effort in. We must thank God for the many blessings that we have but we must as well make sure that upon our knees we renew our prayers and continue to beg for those graces . That He will continue to bless the society. Nearly 50 years He's blessed her. I don't think He is going to stop now. He has protected her from all kinds of trouble . [And this particular trouble? Let's not fall into presumption.] And that's really where our hope is. It's ultimately not in the society. It's not even in your priests. It's not even in our superior general . It's in God. God has blessed the society. And through that He will protect the leaders and help them always to keep that fight of the faith of all time. The fight of the Archbishop. And we have to go back and read the Archbishop .
He gives the spirit of the faith. And we have to understand that spirit. It has to be absorbed. It has to permeate our life. We can see this wonderful biography written by Bishop Tissier . It's not something you read once. You read over and over. It can penetrate. And you will understand not only what the society is but you will understand the Church . You will understand the faith .
Because Archbishop Lefebvre was a man of the Church. A man of the faith.
In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost Amen
Source
In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost Amen
A week from ago this past Friday I'm sure most of you heard, not all of you , that His Excellency Bishop Rogers Foys , the bishop of the diocese of Covington came to visit the church the school, and some asked well why would the bishop come, why would we have the bishop here , why would we allow him to see, and I think to understand that question, to understand why we would allow him to come, we have to go back when the Society began on November 1, 1970 . It was founded as priestly society without vows. It was a simple society meant to give priests a rule of life . So it was not a religious order, as we know it. They would not have superiors. It would be more like the priests living a common life, kind of like a 3rd order. it was a pious union, began only in 1 diocese, given permission only by 1 bishop , but the Archbishop started the Society to train good priests. It was given to the priesthood and we can see that in the statutes, the rules that Archbishop Lefebvre set up the society with. He says the Society is a priestly society of common life w/o vows, after the pattern of the society of foreign missions. However, it is founded in the spirit of profound faith and perfect obedience in the steps of the Divine Master. so it is not a religious order, the priests do not take vows . That was how it was originally set up. And further in the statues the Society is placed specifically under the patronage of the presthood of Jesus for Our Lord's whole existence was and remains priestly and the sacrifice of the cross was the reason for His Incarnation .
Thus will the society's member for whom (Mici bivreChristus est.) ?? latin....to live is to live christ is a reality......they will live in a way entirely directed toward the Sacrifice of the Mass and Our Lord's sacred passion . So we see the priesthood was the essence of what Archbishop Lefebvre founded the Society for, to preserve the Catholic priesthood , to train good priests . And it goes on in fact such as the foremost of the society's activities all the work necessary for the formation of priests and whatever pertains there to. Thus seminaries whether they are those of the Society or not must take care that the training attain its chief goal- the priest's holiness together with sufficient knowledge. This is why the priest was placed under patronage of St. Pius X. So you can see that it is the primary work ....Archbishop Lefebvre beginning seminary, international seminary, to train good priests because the world, following VII, the seminaries (so many of the errors)? of vii, the modernist errors, the liberal errors and there was no longer formation be given to priests.
The Archbishop goes on. ... in addition to this work of training seminarians, the Society was founded to sanctify priests, by preaching retreats, looking after old priests, and even helping fallen priests. The Society was about priesthood, it's what the Society was founded for, to train priests, to help priests, and to help make holy priests. But we know that although the Society was begun just as a pious union like similar to a 3rd order for priests in a certain way as it continued it soon became very difficult for Archbishop to find dioceses that would accept his priests, his seminarians, that would take them because they did not have their own superior, they
did not belong to the Society as in the sense of a religious order but they belonged to different diocese so he was training the seminarians, and some might belong to a diocese in Germany, some in Switzerland, some in France, some in America, some in England, all over the world, and he would just find a diocese that they would have to be incardinated and belong to that diocese and when they were ordained they would go back and would work in that diocese.
You see the archbishop was not training priests for the society in the beginning , he was training priests for the diocese and the church, but soon as the archbishop because he stuck to old Mass he continued to train priests as the church always did , he soon began to create more and more enemies, they were labeled as a wildcat seminary. And as that continued the archbishop realized that he might have to start seeking to have the seminarians, the priests belong to society as like a religious order, be incardinated into the diocese. So he went to rome, and rome gave him permission for ?? priests and such, well then pretty soon by 1974 the bishop of the diocese, Bishop charie?? retired , Bishop Ami? ?, the new bishop, took over and he decided he didn't like Econe , he didn't like the society, and he wanted to disband it and so he suppressed the society. The problem was that the Archbishop always held that the Society at that point had grown, it had received the right to incardinate into its membership, into the order so that members would belong specifically there and have superiors and it could not be suppressed by a bishop but only by Rome. So he continued on. You see it was the work of the church,. he always insisted upon that, and he continued on until finally he was suspended in 1976 and he was suspended a Divinis for ordaining priests, because the church, the pope would have said that the priests did not belong, they didn't belong to the diocese and they did not believe that the society had right to incardinate , to accept priests and clerics belonging to them like a religious order and so if Archbishop Lefebvre ordaining priests and they don't have a superior ,that is worthy of the suspension. so they suspended him. Of course , the Archbishop always felt that that was illegal, and so he continued on. But we notice that even in the midst of this when Rome is attacking the Archbishop he goes back to talk to Rome. [There is so
much wrong in this narration and his depiction makes the situation more
of a feeling than a reality of illegal -- NOT in law, NOT in force. See
here The Legal Maneuver of the neo-sspx! ]
He doesn't cut them off, he doesn't push them away , he doesn't say I will only talk to you once you convert,
he continues to go back and in fact he goes and he meets Pope Paul VI at one point and in their conversation, this Pope Paul VI who is speaking...... you have no right to oppose the council . You are a scandal for the Church. You destroy the Church, it is horrible. You raise up christians against the pope and against the council. Do you feel nothing in your conscience that condemns you?
Nothing at all ....the Archbishop responds.
You are irresponsible.
I know i am continuing the Church, I train good priests.
That is not true. You make priests against the pope, you make them sign an oath against the pope.
I do what? On hearing this incredible allegation i put my head in my hand and i can still see myself doing this and saying.... Most Holy Father , how can you say such a thing to me? I have them sign an oath against the pope. Can you show me a copy of this oath? He was amazed.
He was so convinced of the truth of what Cardinal Vinone??? probably had told him.
He continued. ... Paul VI..... you condemn the pope. What orders will you give me, what must I do, hand in my resignation? and then you can take my place .
Ahhh, i put my head in my hands. Most Holy Father don't say things like that. No no no. let me carry on. you have the solution in your hands . You only need to say one thing to the bishops. ...welcome with understanding these groups of faithful who hold on to tradition, the Mass , the sacraments, and the catechism of all time . Give them places of worship. These groups will be the church. You will find vocations among them and they will be the best in the church. [Now comes the shift of paradigm. Quickly skip over the crime of idolatry in the developed new religion.]
So you can see the archbishop, he was far from the sedevacantist attitude. he was totally convinced of the authority of the pope and he had very much a great respect and love for the office, for his holy father. We have to remember this is the same pope that signed all the documents of VII. This is the pope whom the Archbishop felt had really handicapped and allowed this crisis in the Church and yet he goes and speaks with him and later on in the early 1980 's , I believe it was 1984 , he speaks in a sermon...... perhaps one day in 30 or 40
years a meeting of cardinals gathered together by a future pope will study and judge the reign of paul VII, perhaps they will say that there were things that ought to have been clearly obvious to people at the time . Statements of the pope that were totally against tradition, at the moment i prefer to consider the man on the chair of peter as the pope. And if one day we discover for certain that the pope was not pope at least i will have done my duty. When he is not using the charism of infallibility the pope can error.So why should we be scandalized and say, "so there is no pope." Like Arius who was scandalized by OUr Lord being humiliated and saying in his passion, " My God, why have you abandoned Me?" Arius reasoned: Therefore , He is not God.
So you can see the Archbishop , although he understood why souls would fall into the error of sedevacantism, he rejects it. He had always rejected it because the pope can error. And so although the Archbishop continued and we can say even in the 80's at a certain point he cut off ties with Rome, at various moments, he refused to speak with them and it was only when Rome was hostile , was attacking him, trying to crush them , and then he would cut off. But whenever Rome would open up, show some good will, however small, the Archbishop was ready to go back. That's why we find him going back in 1987, speaking with Cardinal Ratzinger, and he was speaking, trying to get some bishops, and of course, we know that Rome kept putting him off, and the Archbishop was an old man, at that point in 1988 he was 83 years old. He was afraid death was getting close. It could come at any time. His health was not very strong. And finally because he felt the double dealings of Rome he consecrated the bishops. The 4 bishops. And of course, Rome reacts and excommunicates him and the bishops. Of course, we never believed these excommunications were valid because the Archbishop was acting out of a case of necessity because he wanted he needed to continue the work of the Church and there is no doubt he felt that real necessity . The Archbishop even before he died , even after the consecrations he began to make certain overtures to Rome, going back even after he is "excommunicated" by Rome, he goes back, he begins to speak in a very small way but before the conversation got anywhere his health, his health got so bad he could no longer continue and of course we know he passed away in 1991. But this mission which he gave the society continued and there continued to be certain dealings with Rome according as Rome showed good will towards the society.
And of course we know that HIs Holiness Pope Benedict XVI became pope there was definitely a much more favorable attitude towards the society, towards tradition. And so on July 7, 2007, Benedict XVI
releases the Moto Proprio, freeing the old Mass, of course we always said the old Mass and only the old Mass and we always believed that we always had a right to say the old Mass. And every priest had a right to say the old Mass. But this Moto Proprio there is no doubt was a statement to the whole world telling priests they were free to say the old Mass. Making it clear and the old Mass became more and more common , more and more priests saying it, and it became a source of grace, of course, these priests, many times, were still imbued with the errors of VII, there's still a crisis, but if they are saying the old Mass, Graces are going to flow. And of course, we know that on Jan. 21, 2009, Pope Benedict XVI lifted the excommunications of our 4 bishops. WE never believed they were excommunicated in the 1st place. But this was a visible statement to the world , one more obstacle when people were coming, they cannot say you are excommunicated, and so this was a great something we could be thankful for . On Sept. 1, 2015, the Pope granted the society jurisdiction for Confession, for 1 year, but of course we know after that one year he granted it forever , granted it permanantly . Of course, we always held our confessions were valid because the Church supplies jurisdiction . Normally a priest could only hear confessions in his church , in his parish, but if I were, let's say, in a different church just visiting and I was visiting there and somebody were to come and ask me for confession I would be able to hear their confession because the Church would supply that jurisdiction.
Whether its a case of necessity or not any priests anywhere if asked by someone to hear their confession could hear their confession. And so, although we believed we always held the case of necessity and so the people coming and going to confession and wanting it and so the Church supplied. So we always held our confessions were valid . Nothing has changed. But now they can't accuse us of that.
March 27, 2017, the pope comes out with a letter asking the bishops of the world to grant the society jurisdiction for marriages. Of course, we always held our marriages was valid bcause of the case of necessity . But at least now it is a regular situation . Nobody can accuse us that we don't have jurisdiction because it's clear we do , it's regular. [There it is. From the mouth of a new-sspx priest.] Before it was supplied because of necessity and now it's given by the bishop as it would be if the church was in normal times. And the only thing that the bishop asks , Fr. Wegner and myself went to see the bishop , in November, this past November, to ask the bishop if he would grant us jurisdiction for our marriages and , of course, he was very gracious and complied. [Comply they did. To all of the conciliar reform that regulates it.] And the only thing he asks is that we send the paper work to him. It first goes to our district, it is first approved by the society that this marriage is indeed able to go forward and then we take the paper work and we send it to the diocese. And a few days later we receive the official delegation for that priest to witness that marriage. And then at the end we send them a copy of the paper work . WE keep a copy ourselves , and a copy for the district, but they get a copy which is absolutely toally normal that the diocese would keep track of the sacraments that happen within that diocese. Put all of these things from the Moto Proprio to the lifting of the excommunications to the granting of jurisdiction for our confessions and our marriages the Society has not changed. (!!!!!!) She never compromised anything , she was not forced to give anything, it was totally Rome granting it. (!!!!!!) Which is pretty extraordinary when you think about it. Rome which has been condemning us, attacking us for 40 years, and now they are granting the regularization . Really the situation is extraordinary you think about for our marriages and even our confessions they still hold that we are not in a regular situation.
So normally the faithful should not be coming to us they would say that we are irregular which if times were normal it would be true . But yet they are granting us jurisdictions for confessions and marriages.
So it's really quite extraordinary , it's not something very small at all, . By granting us jurisdiction
for confessions and marriages in a certain way they are saying our situation may be not totally regular is still quite regular. We can say that it's very interesting but where does this leave us? Where does all these happenings leave us? Is the crisis over? Of course not. Of course not. Rome is in many ways worse than ever before. The Pope has made statements that are confusing, and has confused the Church more than ever. Most especially the one about divorced Catholics receiving Communion.
It's really a terrible situation we're in. The crisis is far, far from over. But we must remember as well that as a Pope and the Church begins to go one way the Pope and his statements he has prompted many priests, many bishops, many faithful to lean more and more to Tradition. [ Or really Neo-Tradition?] To lean more and more coming back to the old Mass . Even bishops within , the bishop in , um, San Francisco saying that if he did not train his priests , his seminarians to say the old Mass , he would have no vocations. They are coming for the old Mass. They are coming for Tradition. And so we cannot say that the crisis is over, it is far from over the situation is worse and worse in many ways. And I would say in many ways the hardest part of the fight is yet to be fought. We're only beginning. I think we might be able to say that by personal opinion and that's it , but I think we might be able to say we're starting to come out of the crisis a bit . Only in the sense that people are waking up. (!!!!!)
It's not over. And it's just the beginning that people are starting to go back to Tradition. [Vatican II tradition? Its "living" tradition. Let us not forget, it is the superior (modern rome) that forms the inferior (neo-sspx). ] But the pope , the bishops still are attached to VII. It is still taught in the seminaries. It is still the Novus Ordo Mass is considered the regular the normal Mass . [Pray tell. It is such because you agreed to it by accepting the hideous Moto Proprio!] And the extraordinary form is the Latin. So no, we are not over. But yet, the one thing that the Society, I think, today, our mission is exactly the same. Archbishop Lefebvre L insisted that the Society is not meant to be involved in polemics. (?!!!!) Polemics mean attacking. Finding problems with it and attacking the Church. And he would say that is not the position , that is not what the Society was founded for. [So is the new program accepting conciliar "jurisdiction". Compromise full tilt!] She was founded to continue the faith of 2000 years. She was founded to continue giving the sacraments, for train priests, priests that would be faithful to the Mass and the sacraments and the Church of all time . And so the mission of the Society is exactly the same . the famous statement of the 1974 declaration of the Archbishop which really shook the church , shook Rome up was still just as valid today as it was then . We adhere with our whole hearts , and with our whole soul, to Catholic Rome . the guardian of the Catholic faith and of those traditions necessary for the maintenance of that faith, to eternal Rome mistress of wisdom and truth because of this adherence we refuse and have always refused to follow the Rome of Neo modenists , neo protestant tendencies, such as were clearly manifested during the second vatican council . And after the council in all the resulting reforms . that statement is just as valid today. (!!!!!) But we must remember that the Society can be a life.... lux luca, lux vestra (
Latin)......let your light shine before men. You put your light on a candlestick to shine for the whole world . And so when you ask why did the bishop of the diocese come. .....because he wanted to . He's the bishop of the diocese. We pray for him at every Mass just as we pray for the pope. and we promise obedience to him in all things that do not go against faith and morals.
if he tells us to say the new Mass, that is against the faith and more (morals?) . If he asks that he can come and visit and have a meal with the priests and visit the church and the school that is not against faith and morals. . That's his perogitive as the bishop of the diocese. and so yes, then we say yes. And that is why he visited. But we must remember that when the bishop , when he did leave he was definitely quite pleased from what I could tell and in a certain way very impressed , perhaps even edified and perhaps even a bit jealous . but think about it, when you see how bad the Church is, and he comes and comes into it and sees the quality of our faithful , the way we dress, the way our church is, when he goes down and he sees the school and he sees the children , he hears about the vocations that are coming from us, he sees the large families, he even sees visiting with the priests we have 3 young priests and one middle aged priest, when you look at the diocese so many of the priests are 60 yrs old or above. And yet our average age is very very young. . The hope young families the hope that that has to give, that is the mission of the Society to be a certain way a liferaft. As a ship the Church is going towards shipwreck. And perhaps we can be something that people can hang on to to hopefully get them to shore. We can't replace the ship but hopefully we can help them get to shore. And that is what the society is meant for. To be alight in the darkness. And there's no need to be afraid. Sometimes its we are afraid, afraid of the world, afraid to talk to the people in the world, afraid to talk to the Novus Ordo bishop and priests because we are afraid they are going to attack us and kill us . [Sic]
In the early days of the society when they were almost trying to crush us , they tried to harm us,,and we were very small and they didn't succeed .
They suspended the society, they excommunicated the bishops, they did their darndest to stamp it out
and it grew. And today we are more than 600 priests , we are more than 1100 members throughout the world . We're no longer a little society , we're big. And here in America we are the largest district as far as the number of faithful in the world for the society . So , why are we afraid?
We should be proclaiming our work to the whole world. Please come and see what we're doing.
Come and see what the old Mass brings. Come and see where the vocations come from. This is what a Catholic school was and is. And we only continue the work of the Church. And so we should all be happy when the bishop comes. Because we can be that light. We know the dangers. We are well aware of them. The society has had 40 years of it. And nobody, nobody wants to compromise that ( fun?
) .But what we must not do is cut ourself off from Rome, because we will not give them the grace, we can be a grace to them. And that is what the Archbishop always did , always insisted upon. Continuing the fight for the faith of 2000 years and Rome eventually , one day, when and how we don't know, but one day, the Church will come back . Rome will come back to the faith of our ancestors, the faith of all time.
But more than ever we need you. Your prayers, your sacrifices for our superior general and our priests
for our families, for our young men in the seminary, for vocations, and it is something that we must all renew our effort in. We must thank God for the many blessings that we have but we must as well make sure that upon our knees we renew our prayers and continue to beg for those graces . That He will continue to bless the society. Nearly 50 years He's blessed her. I don't think He is going to stop now. He has protected her from all kinds of trouble . [And this particular trouble? Let's not fall into presumption.] And that's really where our hope is. It's ultimately not in the society. It's not even in your priests. It's not even in our superior general . It's in God. God has blessed the society. And through that He will protect the leaders and help them always to keep that fight of the faith of all time. The fight of the Archbishop. And we have to go back and read the Archbishop .
He gives the spirit of the faith. And we have to understand that spirit. It has to be absorbed. It has to permeate our life. We can see this wonderful biography written by Bishop Tissier . It's not something you read once. You read over and over. It can penetrate. And you will understand not only what the society is but you will understand the Church . You will understand the faith .
Because Archbishop Lefebvre was a man of the Church. A man of the faith.
In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost Amen
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